Destroyers for ASC?

[timdp]

Not seeing a current ASC thread, so posting it separately. Please let me know if it needs to go somewhere else.

Been doing some research on ship classes and have a question: Where are the destroyers in BFG? You know, the ships sized between frigates and light cruisers that make up the bulk of the numbers of any major fleet since WWI…

Looked for the older ASC thread, but the thread seems to have vanished, so I have no idea whether destroyers have been discussed before.

Light cruisers are six hit points and escorts (frigates/raiders) are one hit point. Seems to me that there is a fair amount of room to play in the two to five hit points range, for both ships and scenario possibilities. We have a few ASC ships at either end of that range (Orion Class Star Clipper: Cruiser/5, Turbulent Class Heavy Frigate: Escort/2 and Apostate Heavy Raider: Escort/2), but nothing in the three to four point range. The Cobra is called a destroyer, but does not function as one. Its more of a gun/torpedo boat.

Historically the most important duty of a destroyer is to locate and stop submarines and other small ships to prevent them from attacking a naval fleet or transport convoy. No submarines in BFG, but there are short range capital ships and plenty of pesky escorts that could be vulnerable to torpedos.

Looking at Imperial and possibly Chaos fleet usage. Intent is that torpedos be the primary armament for destroyers.

Fleet Destroyer 4 or 5 HP
Has to be faster than the ships it is protecting so Speed: 25
Prow Torpedos: 4 or 5
Port/Starboard Weapons Batteries:  S3 or S4?
Turns: 90, Armor 5+, Shields and turrets: 1


Escort Destroyer 3 HP
A convoy escort ship, so not as fast or as heavily armed.
Speed: 20
Prow Torpedos: 3 or 4
Port/Starboard Weapons Batteries:  S3 or S4?
Turns: 90, Armor 5+, Shields and turrets: 1 or 2

Using Smotherman escorts to calculate, the five hit/five torp destroyer comes to 68.5 and the four hit/four torp destroyer comes to 58.5

The four hit/four torp escort destroyer comes to 54 and the three hit/three torp escort destroyer comes to 49.

Thoughts?

[connahr]

For the imperial navy destroyers are the cobra (vanillia) and viper (originally from planet killer i think)
For chaos i think its the infidel that packs torpedos
In BFG terms destroyers are smaller than frigates.

[timdp]

For the imperial navy destroyers are the cobra (vanillia) and viper (originally from planet killer i think)
For chaos i think its the infidel that packs torpedos
In BFG terms destroyers are smaller than frigates.

The point is that they are not really destroyers in how they function, but are more like torpedo boats.

Also thought it might be quite interesting to expand into the empty area between 6 HP light cruisers and single hit point frigates.

[connahr]

originally (WW1) destroyers were primarily for delivering torpedos and scouting, with a move towards sub hunting

By WW2 they start being used for increasingly as dedicated sub hunters and as essentially AA platforms, particularly in the Pacific.

from my understanding escort destroyers were smaller than regular destroyers and dedicated to the sub hunting role to the point of not being usable in a normal 'surface' engagment

what your describing would be more like a heavy frigate for leading flottilas

I suppose the reason there's nothing between the 1 hit escorts and 6 hit cruiser for the Imperial Navy and Chaos is because they would be neither here nor there and there are ships which do the same job but better for not much difference (much like real world Battlecruisers Vs Battleships).

For example your fleet destroyer has the same Str WB, turns, speed, turret and armour as a Dauntless light cruiser but with a slightly weaker str Torp, no AAF bonus and less hits. Why take it when for presumably very little more in points, you can get a light cruiser with better torps and able to take more damage?

other races do have stuff that fills the size gap, but i think thats more because their ships in general are smaller and so the hit are partially representing how much ship thier physicaly is that can take damage

[connahr]

so having done a little bit more reading i can see where BFG isn't translating with small ship classes. I'm basing this primarily around WW1 and WW2 as thats what BFG is built around.

Real world a destroyer is generally bigger than a Frigate, intended to function in a main battle line, the exact role varies a lot depending on a nations doctrine; offensivly they launch torpedo attacks, defensivly they screen against torpedo attacks and provide AA fire

Frigates are smaller, and were originally designed primarily as convoy escorts that were quick and easy to build

whereas in BFG frigates are larger and fill a main battle line role whereas destroyers are more dedicated to a torpedo attack role

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Awesome, I'll take a look at this soon. TBH last I had known the forums had died/gone down again. Suprised they are here still so definitely will be trying to post some of the ASC 2.0 development stuff, and as always, feedback is more than welcome