November 27, 2024, 10:32:42 PM

Author Topic: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative  (Read 9699 times)

Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2020, 10:01:43 AM »
Adding transport value to the RT vessels is a good idea. With Galleons being juicy meats to the daring pirate.

I feel a Piet Heyn vs the Silver fleet scenario on the horizon. :)

Offline RecklessPrudence

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2020, 07:15:40 AM »
Would loosening the restrictions on number-limited refits to 'X number per full Y number of points in your fleet' as opposed to 'X number in your entire fleet' be worth it for those that want BIG games, or would that add too many balancing issues? Also, hi everyone! Long time no see, you probably don't remember me, I wasn't very active on the previous BFG and Specialist forums that eventually became this one, and I never ended up posting on this one, but BFG was my first-ever wargame system, and I'm interested in getting back into it!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 10:26:20 AM by RecklessPrudence »

Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2020, 10:00:56 AM »
The lure of the Battlefleet Gothic remains strong. :)


Offline RecklessPrudence

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2020, 10:28:52 AM »
The lure of the Battlefleet Gothic remains strong. :)
Thst it does! I'm still convinced it's one of the best systems GW ever put out (once certain problems like infinite strike craft were patched out), although I feel Bloodbowl probably beats it on a number of aspects - at least older iterations, haven't played the newest edition.

Offline Fr05ty

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2021, 05:21:59 PM »
Resurrecting this with a couple of possibilities regarding how to handle bombers so as to not make them utterly ineffective as they are currently:

Option 1: Make turret suppression affect the total amount of attacks:
So the sequence goes: 4 turrets vs 6 bombers
4 turrets roll 4+ to shoot down bombers: 2 bombers down
4 remaining bombers roll 1d6 each for their attacks and add them all together: 14 (average roll)
4 turrets suppress 4 attacks from those: 10 attacks left
10 attacks roll to hit (5+ most likely): 3.3 hits

Which has a chance to basically obliterate any ship in one swoop if you roll well and thus probably not as desirable.

Option 2: Make turret suppression be half as effective as the number of turrets (rounded up):
So does the sequence go: 4 turrets vs 6 bombers
4 turrets roll 4+ to shoot down bombers: 2 bombers down
4 remaining bombers roll 1d6-2 each for their attacks and add them all together: 6 (average roll)
6 attacks roll to hit (5+ most likely): 2 hits

Which still rewards turret values going up, but doesn't completely nullify bombers. It also still provides an incentive to take advantage of massed turrets.

Keep the fighters taking the first to be downed by turrets and any fighters that outlast the turrets provide +1 attack (up to the limit of remaining bombers) and I feel like it might be decent.

Possible modifications could be that any excess CAP Fighters (after fighters vs fighters get removed) against would also be considered as turrets for the suppression calculation? This way you've still got an incentive to bring fighters.

Example situation: 4 turret ship with 2 CAP squadrons is attacked by 3 fighters and 3 bombers
4 turrets shoot down 2 fighters
1 CAP squadron is nullified by 1 fighter squadron, leaving 1 excess CAP squadron
1 excess CAP squadron shoots down 1 bomber
Remaining 2 bombers attack with 1d6-((turrets+excess CAP which is 1 in this instance)/2) so 1d6-3 each
2 bombers cause a single attack which at 5+ results in 0.33 hits

If you had 4 fighters and 2 bombers instead in the above scenario:
4 turrets shoot down 2 fighters
2 CAP squadrons are nullified by the other 2 fighters, leaving 0 excess CAP squadrons
Remaining 2 bombers attack with 1d6-((turrets+excess CAP which is 0 in this instance)/2) so 1d6-2 each
2 bombers cause 3 attacks which at 5+ results in 1 hit

Hope the example is clear!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2021, 05:31:51 PM by Fr05ty »

Offline RecklessPrudence

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2021, 05:40:16 AM »
Ooh, I like the second solution with the CAP modification!

Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2021, 10:51:14 AM »
What memo did I miss about bombers not being effective?

Offline Fr05ty

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2021, 03:19:37 PM »
What memo did I miss about bombers not being effective?

Bombers vs high-turret targets are pretty much useless due to bomber suppression. Or at least that's my impression since Turret 4 ships already mean that a Bomber squadron has to roll 5+ to generate an attack, which then depends on armour values to actually cause a hit.

Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2021, 08:42:12 PM »
But using fighters in the bomber wave negates the turret suppression. For the cost you pay compared to batteries or lances I never felt launch bays to be overprized.

Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2021, 03:07:19 PM »
What memo did I miss about bombers not being effective?

Bombers vs high-turret targets are pretty much useless due to bomber suppression. Or at least that's my impression since Turret 4 ships already mean that a Bomber squadron has to roll 5+ to generate an attack, which then depends on armour values to actually cause a hit.
I''m re-reading stuff. And FAQ2010:

vs a ship with 4 turrets:
A wave with 8 markers attack: 4 bombers and 4 fighters
Turrets shoot down 4 fighters (but that's not important) the bombers are healthy.
Each bomber rolls D6-4.
Every fighter adds +1 attack.

So in the best roll of bombers you have 6-4 + 6-4 + 6-4 + 6 - 4 = 8 attack rolls.
Plus 4 more from the fighters = 12 attack rolls vs armour.

In the worst case, all bomber rolls are crap you still have 4 attacks from the fighters.

XR:
In above example when 4 fighters would have been shot the attacks rolls of the bombers would have been unmodified. Thus 4 times a roll of D6-4. In a good roll that would mean 8 attacks max.
When 1 fighter would have survived bombers would get D6-3  rolls, resulting in a max of 12 attacks.
If two fighters survive D6-2 = 16 attacks.
If four fighters survice = D6 - 0 = max 24 attacks

So in XR the possibility of 0 attacks exists in every circumstance but the high end is much much higher then FAQ2010. Making bomber runs way to strong imo.

FAQ2010 isn't ideal but it has more flatter line of damage possibility.

Offline flybywire-E2C

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2021, 06:00:03 PM »
Hi Tim and everyone! I've been away from the hobby for a long while and was only recently introduced to the BFG-XR rules. It has a lot to process, but this post by Tim has a lot of good foundational background. I'll have more to add once I better digest the new RT rules.
Check out the BFG repository page for all the documents we have in work:
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q
:) Smile, game on and enjoy!           - Nate

Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2021, 08:09:43 PM »
They cannot be taken as a fleet now in XR. Rogue Traders need to be part of another fleet.

Not a fan tbh.