Nova Cannon -House Rules-

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Given the size of a NC blast I can see them accidentally hitting a ship full on.

Sure you can hit full on. Very, very rare and requires the moon and planets to be aligned and all. Even then the center hole is the more important concern. Still, center hole scattering onto a target should not do full on damage. My rule on center hole doing only D3 damage on a scatter actually balances it out, allowing for the NC rule to now be more accurate.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan ,

I'm only for the full damage if the hole lands over the stem of the wrong target, this is quite uncommon, perhaps rare enough that you'd be comfortable with it?


EasyPrey,

Set damage, well anthing more than 1, feels arbitrary or artificial (I feel that way for Hvy Gunz too). With such a large amount of damage being delt it's strange that it's so predictable. There is no damage variance which I feel there should be given the scale of the weapon!

2 D6 damage take the highest is still too strong, but is more in line with your 4 damage set amount. Still d6 damage is as strong as I'd want to see it!

I'm not fond of points limitations, I like the method of tweaking your fleet to allow the super weapons as appossed to I can have 1 every 500pts. Throw out a fleet of Lightcruisers and Dominators if you want! 

Cheers,

RayB HA 

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral_d_Artagnan ,

I'm only for the full damage if the hole lands over the stem of the wrong target, this is quite uncommon, perhaps rare enough that you'd be comfortable with it?

Cheers,

RayB HA 

No, because again, this was the problem of the NC even when it was guess mode. The problem was that the hole was doing serious damage. So fine, they got rid of the accuracy when the switched from guess to scatter dice rule. But the problem was still that they felt it was still doing a whole lot of damage which was why they increased the scatter distance when they released the BFG2.0.

This is why for game balance I borrowed a rule which reduced the damage output of the NC shot's center hole when it deviates. Every. Time. This makes for simpler rules and easier game play. I fire at that ship. I roll scatter. On a hit, D6. On a scatter, D3. Simple. No need for any other if-then-else situations. My rules effectively weakened it by a certain degree.

Then on the other end, I retained the scatter distance rules which i feel are enough and gave it the ability to use Lock On Special Orders. Then to limit the number and so eliminate another problem, I went with a limit in how many are available to satisfy the fluff.

So other than making special rules for special races like Eldar and Necron, it works fine. Sure it can be changed but I think it works ok.

[RayB HA]

Who/what did you borrow the rule from?

Is this just for game balance? As fluff/scalewise it should be able to hit you full on accidentally. Why wouldn't it, the heavy blast (hole) is going to be about 1000 times bigger than the ship.

Cheers,

RayB HA

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Another game system, Warmachine and Hordes. Elegant and simple rule enough.

Now as to your second question, I point out to the rules themselves which describe the game as 3D in 2D. Sure, the hole scattered onto another target on the X and Y plane. The Z plane however, we can assume it missed to a certain degree that the explosion was only at half efficiency. Simple enough explanation. Space is big.

Actually I have something simpler for an answer. Fluff does not automatically equal rules.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Fluff doesn't always play by the rules, but is it really 'necessary' to not have the full random hit?

Ah Warmachine, haven't played it in years!

Cheers,

RayB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

If you want to include "balance" then yes, the full hit should not happen on a scatter because it screws up the weapons rules. People will always point out that the hole: 1. can do tremendous damage even if it scatters and 2. so make the weapon inefficient that 3. people will only take them en masse.

By making the damage only half, it's easier to improve the weapon to the satisfaction of both parties at the same time allowing for rules which limit its availability which would not be a problem to the player who brings the NC.

[RayB HA]

How does it screw up the weapons rules? The only real problem I can see is bracing. (as it should be able to cause you to BFI 2 ships(or squadrons).

Cheers,

RayB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

As I said, the reason why the changes to scatter were increased was because the center hole still had a good chance of doing max damage even on a scatter.

[RayB HA]

A good chance? A NC hole scattering onto another stem can't happen that often (unless you 'really' bunch your cruisers). I can't really see it happening enough to need a balancing rule that could then be used to justify an increase in strength.

Cheers,

RayB

[Valhallan]

i know its been slightly shot down, but i'd like to mention again, my idea on the NC, and the reasoning behind it.

keep the scatter bands - they suck, but could be simplified, but for making the least changes... keep them.

the center hole of the blast template does D3 damage.

anything touching the template takes 1 damage (including something under the center hole)

The Lock-On SO allows the firer to re-roll the scatter dice.
______________
Now the math:

currently: hit (1/3) * avg damage roll (7/2) = 7/6 ~ 1.167 average damage per shot.

my way: hit (1/3) * avg damage roll + temp (3/2 +1 )= 5/6 ~ .83 average damage per shot

my way, locked on: hit (5/9) * avg damage roll + temp (3/2 +1) = 25/18 ~ 1.389 average damage per shot.


as you can see, my way, the NC is much weaker than the current version - however it gains a boost to 'just better' than the current version when locked on. however, its not extremely scary, because often it will only take down shields - it not longer has the random chance of crippling a cruiser with 1 shot (which btw is 5.6%)

[DarknessEternal]

my way: hit (1/3) * avg damage roll + temp (3/2 +1 )= 5/6 ~ .83 average damage per shot

my way, locked on: hit (5/9) * avg damage roll + temp (3/2 +1) = 25/18 ~ 1.389 average damage per shot.

Had to make an account to comment on this.

The average roll on a d3 is 2, not 3/2 as you've used. 

[Valhallan]

old habit thanks.

my NC avg: (1/3)X(2+1) = 1 damage/shot average
my nc locked: (5/9)x(2+1)=15/9~1.67 damage/shot.

[Eldanesh]

Sorry, the math is simply plain wrong. It simply ignores the damage that can be done by scattering hits.

A regular Base is still under hole if the Nc scatters 1-2cm and 3 touches Base
A large Base is still under the hole if the NC scatters 1-3cm and a 4 touches Base

So the current average damage is:

1D6 scatter
small base: 1/3 x 7/2(hit) + 2/3 x 1/3 x 7/2 (scatter of <=2) + 2/3 x 1/6 (scatter result "3") = 2,05
large base: 1/3 x 7/2 (hit) + 2/3 x 1/2 x 7/2 (scatter of 1-3)  + 2/3 x 1/6 (scatter 4) = 2,44

2D6 Scatter
small base  7/6 + 2/3 x 1/36 x 7/2 + 2/3 x 1/18 = 1,27
large Base: 7/6 + 2/3 x 1/12 x 7/2 + 2/3 x 1/12 = 1,42

3D6 Scatter
small Base: 7/6 + 2/3 x 1/216 = 1,17
large Base: 7/6 + 2/3 x 1/216 x 7/2 + 2/3 x 1/72 = 1,19

[Eldanesh]

(Sorry for the the second post in a row but my browser has some problems to display the answer-box: if you type someting longer than the box the scrollbar jumps up and you cant't see the thing you are currently typing)

So you can see that your suggestion is a simple downgrade. the other point is, that the NC isn't about average damage (if i want a solid source of damage I'll take Torps) it is about the possible Damage. The NC is primary about the possible damage a Nc can do: even under the worst conditions there is a 1:18 (6%) Chance for a "hit 6", meaning a crippled cruiser. This small but realistic risk is the thing that makes the NC worth taking: the enemy must always consider if he puts a carrier under BFI (and because of this can't reload ordonance next turn-meaning you get the upper hand in the "ordonance-fight") or he must take this risk that his cruiser can be crippled.

A NC with just 3 maximum damage ist close to worthless, sorry...