Nova Cannon -House Rules-

[RayB HA]

Vaaish,

Range bands: I suppose you could argue that given the speed of the shell and its blast radius range isn't going to be much of a factor. The Range bands only really come from the evolution from a guess range weapon to a scatter weapon, just like in 40K I suppose but in that case there is no range band.

So an even more stream-lined version would be: 30cm-150cm range (back to 30cm for balance).
Scatter dice with D6cm scatter, where a hit is 0cm scatter.

D6 damage with the hole over the stem, D3 with the hole over the base, 1 damage with the outer template over the base.   

No benefit for being on Lock-on.

You have to target a ship/defence or ordy marker/wave. Target priority is identical to other weapons, so you must pass a leadership test not to shoot the closest target.

You may not have more capital ships with NC's as without.

Cheers,

RayB HA

[Vaaish]

I mostly like that. It prevents the gameyness of trying to put the hole over multiple bases and hoping for a hit, increases the likelihood of some effect whether d3 damage or 1 damage, and retains the d6 damage if you peg a single target.

My only qualm is the d3 which I have a personal aversion to since it can't exist and requires a break down on a d6. Personally I'd be more inclined to just say it does 2 damage or modifies the d6 roll.

[horizon]

I have no problem with D3 as it allready 'exists'.

I dunno about having to target the closest vessel and doing a leadership test for further away targets. I think if that limit is installed Lock On should give an effect to the NC (re-roll scatter, last result stands).

[RayB HA]

Roy,

The reason for the leadership test is simply for balance, as this weapon is now brutal. Also it's one less special rule. 

Cheers,

RayB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

If the hit on the scatter dice is always and only the direct hit(unless a lucky scatter onto another ship), why have range bands at all?

The range bands are for the deviation. There's still a 66% chance of missing with a deviation rolled. I would not deprive a hit from a player rolling it. What I would deprive is access to such an efficient weapon and not neuter the (ineffective as it is) weapon.

Even with just 2D6 scatter you're looking at 6-8cm scatter on average, or a hit! There is no gradual variance at all! D6 damage or a nothing!

Cheers,

RayB

6-8 cm of which is of great importance to cruiser sized targets. Battleships have the shields to shrug off the NC hits. Cruisers do not. Really, what's wrong with D6 on direct hit, D3 on deviation with center hole on target and 1 point if outer template is on target? That there is your variance already.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

So an even more stream-lined version would be: 30cm-150cm range (back to 30cm for balance).
Scatter dice with D6cm scatter, where a hit is 0cm scatter.

D6 damage with the hole over the stem, D3 with the hole over the base, 1 damage with the outer template over the base.   

I don't like this because even with a scatter, there's still the small chance that the hole will end up on the stem. I feel it's unfair for the opponent (and I'm an IN player already, this would benefit me definitely). I really feel a scatter would be D3 whether on stem or base and we don't have to worry about the hole and whether or not it is on the stem, especially if it scatters long and ends on another ship's center base. Hey could happen. If we don't worry about detailed hole placement in scatters then makes for a faster game.

No benefit for being on Lock-on.

And why not?

You have to target a ship/defence or ordy marker/wave. Target priority is identical to other weapons, so you must pass a leadership test not to shoot the closest target.

Fine with this.

You may not have more capital ships with NC's as without.

Cheers,

RayB HA

No problem with this either.

[Mazila]

In my gaming community we use current rules but simply limit NC to 1 per 750 pts (500 seams like more approporiate for some ppl), limit launch bays to 4 per 500 pts (with exception to some fleets like TAU and SM) and it seams to work pretty well for us.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Firstly, if the NC template scatters 1 cm the hole is no longer over the stem.

My point about the 2D6 scatter beyond crazy scale is that it is too predictable and completely ignores 1cm(D3 damage) scatter, and mostly ignores 2cm(D3 damage) and 3cm as well(1 point of damage). Which means the D3 damage almost never occurs!
With 3D6cm it’s obviously worse.

The range only means that if you’re not within close range you’re going to miss on a scatter. Whereas if you are within 60cm you cause damage most of the time. So no gradual difference.   

With a single D6 scatter you will cause D3 damage on a 1 or 2 and 1 point of damage on a 3 or 4.

I like that a full hit can occur due to scatter and don’t want to get rid of that chance.

The no lock-on is for balance.

Cheers,

RayB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Firstly, if the NC template scatters 1 cm the hole is no longer over the stem.

Not necessarily. The stem is wide enough at the base that 1 cm movement can still clip it. The hole itself is around 1 cm. It can still touch the stem. have to verify.

My point about the 2D6 scatter beyond crazy scale is that it is too predictable and completely ignores 1cm(D3 damage) scatter, and mostly ignores 2cm(D3 damage) and 3cm as well(1 point of damage). Which means the D3 damage almost never occurs!
With 3D6cm it’s obviously worse.

Which is why I prefer reverting to the old 2 bands. So that D6 scatter happens in 30-60 cm range band and 2d6 scatter happens in the 60-150 cm band. D3 can still happen then. This is the balancing factor for NCs being able to hurt 33% of the time with a direct hit. I don't find anything wrong with it.

The range only means that if you’re not within close range you’re going to miss on a scatter. Whereas if you are within 60cm you cause damage most of the time. So no gradual difference.  

And this is a problem because?

With a single D6 scatter you will cause D3 damage on a 1 or 2 and 1 point of damage on a 3 or 4.

I don't mind as this would boost the NC alright.

I like that a full hit can occur due to scatter and don’t want to get rid of that chance.

Nope, I don't. It's a shot that scattered so the target should not be getting the full effects.

The no lock-on is for balance.

Cheers,

RayB

I prefer having the ability to Lock On.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Scatter = miss: If the hole of the NC template scattered 1cm the stem would have to be 8mm wide for it to still be hit.

Scale: for 2d6 the average scatter range is 6-8cm which is far too far! Missing by 7000km on average is just crazy!

Progression: If there are going to be range bands at all gradual progression is important as there is already a precedent with gunnery weapons hence the 3 band preference. This becomes even more important given the 120cm for range bands.
The difference is so extreme between D6 scatter and 2D6 it’s similar to jumping straight from long range to short range for WB’s.

Miss hitting: As it’s an area effect why couldn’t a NC explosion fully hit the wrong ship. Especially as you like the 2D6 scatter.

Predictability of dice sums: As dice sums have weighted averages low and high results are unlikely, which means if a ship was massing turrets with a ship that was shot at by a NC it would be less likely to be fully hit than a ship 7cm away!

Cheers,

RayB     

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Firstly, if the NC template scatters 1 cm the hole is no longer over the stem.

Will have to measure. Most probably you are right but better to be sure.

My point about the 2D6 scatter beyond crazy scale is that it is too predictable and completely ignores 1cm(D3 damage) scatter, and mostly ignores 2cm(D3 damage) and 3cm as well(1 point of damage). Which means the D3 damage almost never occurs!
With 3D6cm it’s obviously worse.

It really depends on the base size Ray. On a large base, 1 cm will still hit.

The range only means that if you’re not within close range you’re going to miss on a scatter. Whereas if you are within 60cm you cause damage most of the time. So no gradual difference.   

Why do you believe there should be a gradual difference? Shouldn't one be doing more damage in a shorter range than a longer one? I, a non-pro shooter, shoots a 0.45 cal 1911 and at ranges of  0-10 meters, I should be getting hits reliably. 10 meters to 20 meters, I will be missing quite a bit. beyond 20 meters, I'm probably missing like crazy. However, there is really no definition of gradual in there.

With a single D6 scatter you will cause D3 damage on a 1 or 2 and 1 point of damage on a 3 or 4.

I like that a full hit can occur due to scatter and don’t want to get rid of that chance.

The no lock-on is for balance.

Cheers,

RayB

And I like that a scatter is a scatter and has no chance for a full hit. Again, this has been the crux of the issue with NCs and why they were adding additional D6 to the scatter distance. Because even with a scatter, the NC could still do D6 damage if the hole lands on the base. That's the issue. So to finally fix the NC, a scatter should always be D3. That's where your balance should be and not in having no Lock On.

[EasyPrey]

I want to try this soon and I'd like to get opinions:

Range: 30 - 150 cm
Place template on target's stem, test for target priority if not the closest legal target (e.g. ignoring targets out of fire arc, without LOS or closer than 30 cm)
Scatter distance: D6 + (1 for every full 30 cm the shot travelled) cm
Damage: 4 if hole touches stem, 2 if hole touches base, 1 if template touches base [Alternatively: 3D6 pick the highest (hole touching stem), 3D3 pick the highest (hole touching base) and 1 (template touching base); I just think that a hit should hurt.]; hitting nothing places a BM

Rolling a "Hit!" reduces scatter distance by 4 cm.
Being under "Lock on!" special orders reduces scatter distance by 4 cm.
Scatter distance can't be lower than 0 cm, obviously.

A maximum of one ship armed with a Nova Cannon per 750 points, i.e. one for games up to 750 points, two for 750 - 1499 points, three for 1500 - 2249 points etc..

[fracas]

So an even more stream-lined version would be: 30cm-150cm range (back to 30cm for balance).
Scatter dice with D6cm scatter, where a hit is 0cm scatter.

D6 damage with the hole over the stem, D3 with the hole over the base, 1 damage with the outer template over the base.   

No benefit for being on Lock-on.

You have to target a ship/defence or ordy marker/wave. Target priority is identical to other weapons, so you must pass a leadership test not to shoot the closest target.

I am good with this.

You may not have more capital ships with NC's as without.

I am not good with this. imo there should be no limits if there is already a point cost premium.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Given the size of a NC blast I can see them accidentally hitting a ship full on.


EasyPrey,

I’m not a fan of the set damage and scatter amounts. 

3D6 take the highest will likely be 5 or 6, which is too powerful. Hell a single D6 is strong enough.

Scattering a minimum of 2cm seems a little strange (except on a hit), maybe ignoring the first 30cm might be a good idea.

I don’t really want to limit the NC that much.


fracas,

The limitation you’re referring to is just the cost of the ship right? I think being able to field a fleet of majority Dominators is really unbalanced in certain scenarios (they suck in others, but you wouldn’t use them in those).

Every other capital ship seems like a quick and easy limitation, about 1 every 400pts or so.

Cheers,

RayB HA

[EasyPrey]

I’m not a fan of the set damage and scatter amounts.

Sorry to be a pain here, but: Why?
Set damage keeps out the weird case of a full hit doing nearly no damage at all, which I think is pretty neat. But I can see why it would be unliked; I've got no problem throwing it overboard.
Set scatter distances aren't there AFAICS; the modifiers on the scatter distance are set because making them random as well would IMHO involve too much rolling of dice.

3D6 take the highest will likely be 5 or 6, which is too powerful. Hell a single D6 is strong enough.

That's the point. A hit should be powerful IMHO.
I still strongly dislike the fact that a hit from the current NC can be anything from a light breeze to the end of the world with both having the same probability, as has each event between them. "3D6 pick the highest" would still give the possibility of something like a malfunctioning shell (i.e. one point of damage), but it would be far more unlikely.

The NC in my "proposal" (I'm reluctant to call it that because it really isn't much more than a brainstorming experiment at the moment) wouldn't get a full hit as often as the current one, at least without special orders; but if it hits it hits harder.
Being shot by it one could still BFI and hope for scatter or a low damage roll.

Although, after giving it some thought, I reckon "2D6 pick the highest" is more in line with what I wanted.

Scattering a minimum of 2cm seems a little strange (except on a hit), maybe ignoring the first 30cm might be a good idea.

Yeah, good point. Must have missed that.
The effect of LO has to be reduced to -3cm scatter then, though.

I don’t really want to limit the NC that much.

Actually I was concerned that my "proposal" was pretty strong and thus shouldn't be freely accessible.
I guess finding a fitting limitation on the use of the NC will be uncalled for for as long as there are no rules which at least the majority would use. So I'm going to keep my mouth shut about limitations until then.