Nova Cannon -House Rules-

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

D3 damage over the hole? If shields do not affect this, I'm good with it. If shields do, forget it.

[commander]

Currently, I'am going to try a mix of all these rules presented here. It isn't playtested yet.

When firing the Nova Cannon place it's template so that the entirety of the hole is within the Nova Cannons fire arc.
The Nova Cannon has a minimum range of 15cm: you must place the template so that the entirety of the hole is over 15cm away.
The Nova Cannon has a maximum range of 150cm: you must place the template so that the entirety of the hole is within 150cm.
Now roll the scatter dice and move the template the scatter distance in direction shown, including if a hit is rolled.

There are 3 range bands which affect the scatter distance.
15cm-45cm: 2 D6 scatter, take the lowest of the two scores.
45+cm-75cm: D6 scatter.
75+cm-150cm: 2 D6 scatter, take the highest of the two scores.

If you are on Lock-on special orders you may re-roll the scatter dice. If a hit is rolled on the re-roll, the shot does not scatter.

If the hole scatters over a stem or base, it causes D6 damage.
If any part of the template excluding the hole is over a base, it causes D3 damage
If any part of the template is over ordnance, the ordnance is destroyed.
If the template hits nothing place a blast marker under the hole.

You may test to brace against a nova cannon shot before the shot is fired (you detected the power surge of the firing sequence).

Holofields offer no save or effect.

Restriction: one Nova cannon per full 1000 points in the fleet.

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

I still don't like the auto-deviate rule. If it's a hit, it should be a hit. Otherwise, what's the direct hit for?

[RayB HA]

Commander,

The restriction of 1 per 1000pts is pretty extreme! 1 every other cap ship would be more appealing.

D3 damage even if it’s just the blast...It’s already a brutal weapon why do you think it needs a boost.


Admiral_d_Artagnan,

It’s not an always deviate rule, you can still get 0cm scatter. The problem with the ‘hit’ is that it ignores the range bands. And as it’s a hit a third of the time that’s a real problem.

Cheers,

RayB 

[Vaaish]

The problem with the ‘hit’ is that it ignores the range bands. And as it’s a hit a third of the time that’s a real problem.

I still do not see this as problematic. Why is it a problem to hit 1/3 of the time and ignore the range bands? Is it the potential to cripple a cruiser in a single hit that bothers you more than the fact that it hits? Has the NC been shown to be problematic or broken in a competitive environment? IN is considered one of the lesser competitive fleets and even all out NC spam is rarely seen competitively or seen to perform well when it is used. Unless you are playing in deep space, it is far more likely that the NC will only fire one or two times before the 30cm min range because of asteroids, planets and moons that block the LOF to the target. As it stands right now, 3d6 scatter gives you minimal odds of hitting if you don't roll a hit and 33% odds of rolling that hit makes a single shot weapon no better at hitting a target than a WB targeting 5+ armor. The only good thing that's happened with the NC lately is that eldar can't laugh in the face of it quite as much as they have in the past with the changes in the FAQ. Strictly speaking, if any of the proposed changes here went official, I probably wouldn't field a dominator again.

[commander]

Well, if you can only do 1 point of damage by the blast at long range, it is of no use. You can just down 1 shield and that's it. To be effective you have to spam it (because of the auto scattering, unless on lock - on) which is not fluffy. So, more powerfull but restricted use.
I'am open to suggestions 

[RayB HA]

Hi Guys,

The reason for both the 'hit' being reduced scatter and the blast having 3 strengths is to have a gradual variance as this is a massive area effect weapon.
 
Missing completely should be difficult but getting a direct hit should also be taxing but both should be relative to the range. If the 'hit' is a straight D6 hit, a third of the time range bands are completely ignored. The rest of the time you will not get a direct D6 hit so the range bands only exaggerate when you do miss!


Vaaish,

My rules feel quite balanced and can still get those lucky shots in at range but it is less likely. However the difference isn't D6 damage or complete miss at long range!

Cheers,

RayB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Hi Guys,

The reason for both the 'hit' being reduced scatter and the blast having 3 strengths is to have a gradual variance as this is a massive area effect weapon.
 
Missing completely should be difficult but getting a direct hit should also be taxing but both should be relative to the range. If the 'hit' is a straight D6 hit, a third of the time range bands are completely ignored. The rest of the time you will not get a direct D6 hit so the range bands only exaggerate when you do miss!

So what's the issue then? Why the need for a change to your method? It works enough as it is but the problem is people spamming it because the rules suck. Even with your rules, people will still spam it. All the more since you neuter it all the more. You want spamming to disappear? Make the NC more accurate and then impose limits on availability. Yes it is an area effect weapon, one that should be actually doing more damage than it is at the moment even if it scatters.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

I'm pretty sure I was clear on why the 'hit' on the scatter dice shouldn't be a straight out D6 damage. Mainly because there is no point in having range bands!!! Unless shooting at large flying bases with the current rules.

In terms of accuacy, a max of 6cm scatter is way better, isn't it?

I agree on limitation. I'd be happy with no more than half your capital ships with NCs.

Cheers,

RayB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

I'm pretty sure I was clear on why the 'hit' on the scatter dice should be a straight out D6 damage. Mainly because there is no point in having range bands!!! Unless shooting at large flying bases with the current rules.

In terms of accuacy, a max of 6cm scatter is way better, isn't it?

At this point in time after 5 pages over a couple of months, maybe it's best you re-summarize your position. Am getting confused myself. I read about auto-deviates even on the scatter and now a D6 straight out damage on the hit.

I agree on limitation. I'd be happy with no more than half your capital ships with NCs.

Cheers,

RayB

I wouldn't mind if the NC becomes really accurate and dangerous. To the point of only having 1 NC per 750 or 1000 points. Just make it better but this will not happen with the rules you're proposing.

[horizon]

Hi,
what is this thread about?
cheers,
horizon

just kiddin, it is about the Nova Cannon, which in my mind should go back to the first scatter concept, thus before new rulebook, max 2d6 scatter it was.

'kay,
thnx
bye bye.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Dang it, serious typo! I meant shouldn't not should! (I've corrected this in my last post).


I'm of the view that the NC should be more accesible than that. Escpecially as 2 cruiser classes come with it as standard.


Roy,

Any more than 1 D6 is just too far scalewise.
Any more than a single dice is too predictable.
If the serious damage is avoided almost every time when a hit isn't rolled why even bother with the range bands at all!


Cheers,

RayB

[Admiral_d_Artagnan]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

Dang it, serious typo! I meant shouldn't not should! (I've corrected this in my last post).


I'm of the view that the NC should be more accesible than that. Escpecially as 2 cruiser classes come with it as standard.

And why should a hit not be straight out D6? A hit is a hit. Means the NC round hit the target or quite close to it. I don't think the IN player should be deprived of that roll, range bands or not, especially since the shields are still in effect. Now 33% chance to hit may seem high. However, compared to WBs (roughly the same against most races only better against SM and Necron) and lances (50% to hit), it's not far off.

The problem with the old rules was not the band. It was that the center hole, if it still landed on the base of the target ship, still did D6 damage. That was what I finally figured out was wrong with the original deviation rules. This is why in my house rules, when a shot deviates but the center hole still ended up on the base, the damage is only D3 while the rest of the template does 1 point of damage. The shot missed by a wide margin yet the effect is still strong enough to possibly be damaged. My rules have improved the NC appropriately and because of it I put in limits on its availability in the game if my rules were used to eliminate spamming.

[RayB HA]

Admiral_d_Artagnan,

If the hit on the scatter dice is always and only the direct hit(unless a lucky scatter onto another ship), why have range bands at all?

Even with just 2D6 scatter you're looking at 6-8cm scatter on average, or a hit! There is no gradual variance at all! D6 damage or a nothing!

Cheers,

RayB

[Vaaish]

Since you seem to be fixated on the hit or nothing effect of the scatter with the current range bands, what would be the effect of just having a single d6 scatter no matter the range?

Secondly, a more off the wall idea, but what about doing away with scatter completely and replacing it with a dud mechanic? The idea being the shot will always hit but on a d6 roll of X+ the shot is a dud and only does 1 point of damage rather than d6?

Finally, what about using some of the PK NC rules instead? no scatter, but has to reload and has the possibility of malfunctioning.