Fw tau (FAQ 2010)...over powered?

[ale_box]

Hi guys, I played yesterday night with a friend of mine.
1000 pts fleet engagement (part of a campaign). We both chose wedge.
My fleet: custodian, protector x3, warden x3
His fleet: barge, cruiser x3 (squadroned), gladius x2

I had the chance to deploy more tightly thank him, and I think he made some mistakes:
- letting me attack frontally with all my fleet (but a cruiser I used as bait for this cruisers) first his barge and then the cruiser
- never bracing
Nevertheless I totally annihilated the barge in one turn an one cruiser + one damaged on an other.
He complained tau are overpowered and he had no way to do anything to me since the beginning.

What do you think?

[horizon]

You played all rules correctly?

I mean a minor misread can make a lot of difference in certain outcomes.

What attack made the Barge go down in one turn?
Your damage output was pretty good. His positioning was off I think and he underestimated the Tau.

Did he brace for Impact? He should have had enough attack craft to thwart your missiles and attack craft. His turrets and high armour negating most of them I think.

The game should have been tense in most cases. He needs to adapt.

Let him post here to see if we can give him tips.

[ale_box]

As for rules I think I player correctly, first game with tau, but player tens of games...

Barge went down with 38 batteries (20 shots or so), 9 lances, 23 torps

As I said he did some mistakes in positioning and did not brace

I'll make him post for sure

[Bozeman]

...he plays Marines and he didn't BOARD YOU?  Plus, he didn't brace?  Oof.  Did he at least try to overwhelm you with ordnance?

I always have trouble with small Marine fleets unless you go ALL barges or ALL strike cruisers.  They're just too different.  Plus, Marine escorts are fantastic.  Play him a couple more times and let him try some new things.

[horizon]

As for rules I think I player correctly, first game with tau, but player tens of games...

Barge went down with 38 batteries (20 shots or so), 9 lances, 23 torps

As I said he did some mistakes in positioning and did not brace

I'll make him post for sure

The missiles should have been his priority on defence with his own ordnance. He only needed to use 1 T-Hawk per torpedo marker to take them out. With his re-roll he even had a chance to keep them on the table to harass some Manta's from you.

[ale_box]

Forgot to mention that I used the 6 fighters of the custodian to take down this thunderhawk in cap

[Atlan]

Hm, the problem I see there is, that Marines cannot compede with Tau in with pure Firepower. They have to try something different. (Boarding, mayba trying to just endure the damage of the Tau bomber and try to use the THs offensivley as assault boats,...)

[Seahawk]

Firepower no, bombardment cannon yes. Hitting everything (including ordnance!) on 4's and causing criticals on 4's should have seen you splattering Tau ships left and right.

And yes, offensive thunderhawks cripple enemy ships to be able to do anything. Use them!

[Atlan]

Bombardment cannons are good yes. But exept vor the Barge you do not have that many of them, and using the gunnery table, ho many dice do you get out of 3 Bombardment cannons? Propably 1,..that does not bring you the victory,...

[Seahawk]

A squadron of strike cruisers adds it together, giving you 9 FP. With one given the prow BC upgrade (which is free!) you are now looking at 14 FP to the front.

I'd suggest giving the squadron rules another read through, because played well they can deal victory for otherwise undermatched single ships.

[Atlan]

Yea, making a squadron improves their firepower. That's clear. But it also reduces their "tactical variety" drasticly. If you want to go on lock on,...every ship has, so none of them may turn,....if you have to go on brace for impact, the firepower of all ships is reduced etc,...
You loose a lot to get some firepower by squadroning. (It still ma be useful in certain circumstances (e.g. when you have low Ld carrier something that shouldn't be a problem for Marines ;-) )  but it is no "all-the -time solution")

[Seahawk]

I just don't see how that's true at all. I've been playing SM for years and have been using squadrons of 3-4 ships, because individually they are weak. FP 4 and BC 3 is, as you said, pointless. They must be squadroned to maximize effectiveness and survivability. I almost never brace because I don't have to as a squadron. If I have a plan to enact, they're always better as a squadron, because it's easier to issue special orders en masse. If I want to shoot anything, squadrons make it very effective.

Tactical variety is a terrible idea in this game. If you have three hammers with which to hit your foe, you COULD try to use them one at a time, but they do little and you fumble them. If you hold them all together though, the impact is far stronger and more coordinated than any single could have achieved.

[Atlan]

I totaly agree with your "hammer-comparisson". No Doubt about that.
That "tactical variety" (maybe this expression does not get to the exact point I mean) should be a bad idea, I cannot agree. Having many options does not mean, using them necessarily all (at the same time) making an uncoordinated mass out of your fleet. But it's always good to have lot of possibilities to choose from to optimize your fleets eficiency.

Mayba you're right and squadroning is the right ting HERE, becaus Marines simpley need it.
I still think it's a kind of double edged sword. Especially when it comes to brace. If (or better when) our opponent focusses his fire on one of your strike cruisers you'd loose it quite quickley if you do not brace. (But bracing has a massiv effekt on your firepower when using a squadron).
And as mentioned before: Lock on. If it happens that you could go on lock on with some of the ships but others would need the turn to get in range to the target,...what to do? lock on? loosing a ships firepower, or turn loosing lock on on others,...(simmilar if AAF, CTNH would be needed on single ships)


But I'm afraid we're getting to far from the topic to "usefullnes of squadrons" 


Back to the Marines vs. Tau topic: I'd try to get quite close the Tau making it harder for him to use is firepower concentrated at his front arcs.

[Seahawk]

I'm not saying it's the same for all fleets, as obviously some ships work well on their own (Chaos, Eldar, and Necrons come to mind), but some find the boosts incredibly useful (IN, SM, Orks, Tyranids). The issues you're describing with squadrons are easily remedied with experience and planning, though of course, not all plans survive contact.

I can't really speak much more to the OP on this one. All Ahead Full turn 1, then close quarters brawl afterwards, is how Space Marines work well in BFG. That, and BOMBARDMENT!

[Bozeman]

Step 1: Two Strike Cruisers get within 25cm.

Step 2: One Strike Cruiser goes one way, ends up in base contact, declares a boarding action.  The other goes the other way, fires batteries to put a BM on the enemy.  Also try Thunderhawks.  Hopefully they Brace.

Step 3: Space Marines get +2 to board, +1 for BM on the enemy, +1 for enemy on special orders.  You're at a +4 to board.  Even with the enemy almost certainly having a higher boarding value, you'd still be up on them.  Eat them alive.

Step 4: Strike Cruisers can turn 90 degrees.  Stay on them if they're weak, or find another victim.  Circle like sharks. 

Step 5: Double up on the Ordnance if you can.  Regular torpedoes for escorts or crippled cruisers to finish them off.  Boarding torpedoes for big stuff to keep their guns turned off so you can board them more times.  Works wonders against Necrons.  Sure they'll fix it next turn but then you just turn it off again.

There.  Kill some weeaboo space communists.