Archers...where is their place in the battle line?

[Kealios]

Something that's always bugged me about these rules:

Im watching Return of the King right now, and as Rohan appears on the flanks of the orcish horde at Minas Tirith, the orc captain says, "Form ranks! Pikes in front, archers behind".

Yet in these rules, we have to do it the other way around. What gives? Has anyone tried it the other way?

[Aquahog]

In Warmaster Medievals English longbowmen are allowed to form a combined brigade with melee infantry. The infantry fights in cc but the archers are placed at the front and may shoot.

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[Draccan]

Sounds like a good house rule that could be included for some armies in regular Warmaster

[Lex]

In Warmaster Medievals English longbowmen are allowed to form a combined brigade with melee infantry. The infantry fights in cc but the archers are placed at the front and may shoot.

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Easiest way to do this is to allow any infantry brigade with a missile component in the second rank to use stand&shoot as reaction with modifiers to represent lesser accuracy/rate of fire.

[marell le fou]

I think the idea is worth it. Archers have always a second rank role and they could be more important in game.

[Dave]

Didn't the rules for Landsknechte allow for something like this in WMMA? Crossbows behind  pike?

[jchaos79]

Hi Dave, hope it helps:

In warmaster medieval  Armies WMMA, there is a special that have some troops called Combined Arms. This represent this a kind of formation where archers and infantry are intermixed, this kind of formation are typical of the medieval age. It is represent in the table placing archers behind heavy infantry.

1. Can adopt a formation where inf in the front and missile are in supporting position.

2. In combined arms the missile stand add their shots to the infantry unit. Range and LOS is calculted form the front range. In the case of Pike the shots are allocated to one pikemen base.

3. If a infantry stand is eliminated the missile behind unit simpy became the shooting stand.

4. In the case of formation of Pikes and Longbows the archers can only shoot if the unit did not move during the command phase.

5. If combined arms is charge they it can shoot to the enemy even so the missile unit is not the target of the charge. Calculate the shooting from the front rank of the combined arms.

6. When combined arms Pike and Longbow formation is engage in combat, both ranks of troops are count as engaged. Longbow can not add dice of attack nor support, but it is obligated to retreat if defeat, purse if victorous, etc...


NOTE: Notice that combined arms is a special of troops. To make a combined arm both infantry and missile must have the special. Notice that is not a general rule that applies to all missile and all infantry.

[Aquahog]

Thanks for the clarification jchaos. I must have misremembered as I play the 100YW French who doesn't have access to combined arms.

[Ole]

I was just reading the rule for combined arms again and thinking about it the main difference about it is:
The missile unit gets the save of the melie unit. Witch is not much difference in Ancients because most of them have save 6+ or nothing at all. But In fantasy it is quite differed. I wouldn't recommend it.

Cheers

Ole

[jchaos79]

For the curiosity of people who do not have WM Medieval Armies and are interested in more info about the special of some troops, combined arms. Only 9 of 30 list in the book have the special, and 8 of them are for XV century.

The list and units that have combined arms are:

# Almoravid Moors list  (XI century) spearmen and bowmen

Then jump some centuries to
# English army of the hundred years wars , XV century Men at arms, longbowmen, billmen
French of hundred years wars do not have combined arms

#The polish lithuanian union XV century, only kingdom of Poland have combined arms, Militia crossbowmen, militia spearmen

#Teutonic order XV century, Ordensdiern spearmen and ordensdiener crossbowmen

# Burgundian ordenance, XV century, longbowmen and pikemen

# War of the roses, The house of Lancaster XV century, Men at arms on foot, retinue bill and shire longbow

# War of the roses, the house of York XV century, Shire longbow, shire bill, retinue longbow, retinue bill

# The army of yorkist pretender XV century, logbowmen and bill

# The army of the house of tudor XV century longbowmen, bill, shire longbowmen and shire bill