How would your ork escort fleet look like?

[Lyksus]

I was wondering how would you build a Ork fleet mainly compost of escorts?
1500pt fleet
My starting point would be with three terror ships, to give some fighter-bomma cover...
But what would you use the rest of the points on?

[LemanRuss]

I've never played Orks even though I have started collecting a fleet but to me, optimized escort composition should be a mix of about one ravager attack ship for every two or three savage gunships. So, for an escort skwadron of eight ships, I would have two ravagers and six savages.

My current 1000 pts list has 2 warlords in terror ships and a kill kroozer with two skwadrons of one ravager and three savage gunships each. Like I said, I have yet to play it but I think it could be pretty effective.

[Lyksus]

Seems like a good way of doing it.
I like the ratio of 3-1 with savage and ravager.

I dont really like the Ram ship, its cheap fast and manoeuvrable but... meh...
The onslaught i want to like but but the savage just seems better for the same price.

[LemanRuss]

The main advantage of the Onslaught over the Savage is the range of its guns. The savage suffers a bit from it as it needs to get up close but I can't help but feel like having a fixed firepower value that generates double hits and not need to roll for AAF orders more than make up for that.

I feel the same way about the ram ships. You can't get more orky than that but it kinda feels gimmicky...

[Lyksus]

Jep, the ram ship even has 1/3 the chance of having equal or higher fire power then the Onslaught for 15pt less, and thats nearly 1/3 of the price.

I just wish there were more cruisers for the ork.

[LemanRuss]

Although I understand the feeling, I don't see what kind of additional kroozer type they would gain from having in the fleet. They have a gunship and a carrier that fill up the most important roles. Playing the Armageddon list also gives you access to battlekroozers plus four unique battleships that would fill up whatever holes you might feel are in the ork fleet.
I like diversity as much as the next guy but I feel like ork diversity comes from the warlord upgrades more than from having more classes of ships.

[LeperColony]

I feel that the ork fleet would benefit from a new class of ships.  I'd make them 6 hit Light Cruisers with specialized designs, rather like Flash Gitz or Mekboyz in 40k.

Perhaps three of them (obviously rough ideas):

1)  Orky take on lances, add in some kind of random # of shots instead of fixed strength.  If their location took a critical hit, the crit would automatically inflict a point of damage.

2)  Some kind of mega lobber or something, a short ranged, scatter prone Nova Cannon-esque weapon.

3)  A melee ranged grabber of some type.  In Man O War, Ork battleships have claws to hold enemies and hammers to batter them. 

Giving the ships unique, specialized weaponry would make them distinct from the "Jack-of-all-Trades" you see on the other Ork ships, and making them 6 hits would add some vulnerability that, in addition to increasing their unique feel, might mitigate any tendency to spam them.

[LemanRuss]

Ork lite kroozers already exist in the Ork Clanz list. Not with the variety that you'd like but the template for the ship does exist.

Somehow the notion of ork lances doesn't seem right to me. Orks are notorious for going for quantity over quality and lances definitely come from the quality side of the scale. Few shots that have a higher chance of doing damage. The Slamblasta battleship does have some lances and the Dethdeala has bombardment cannons but that's what makes them special and unique. I think ork ships are too rickety to have the energy source required to power lance weapons. Evan more so on a light cruiser frame.

Having a nova cannon equivalent would indeed be pretty nice. I don't think it should fit on a lite kroozer though. Much like the lances or bombardment cannons, I feel like that type of weapon would be more appropriate on a unique class of battleship that has been built around the weapon for the sole purpose of powering and shooting it. It should also have some sort of drawback like getting an effect from certain scatter rolls (like a shokk attack gun) or having to roll to see if the weapon "gets hot".

As for the klaws, they already exist. If you take a look at the Ork Clanz list, you can buy a klaw upgrade for your ships that work exactly like the massive claws of tyranid ships. I don't know how well they work but I'm kinda skeptical about the Clanz list as I'd rather have a warlord that doubles boarding value rather than a once per game bonus with access to Clanz upgrades...

[LeperColony]

I'm aware of the light cruiser design.  The problem is, it doesn't add anything to the fleet.

Lances aren't really all that special if you play with upgrades anyway, as Looted Lances are readily available.

Conceptually, I think the idea of a Flash Git Kaptain or Mekboy acquiring a light cruiser sized ship and decking it out with some kind of special dakka is thematically compatible, and that making a new class of specialized vessels would be preferable to simply making more battleships.

The orks are already solid on battleships. 

Currently the ork list looks like this:

Escorts:  Heavily specialized

Cruisers:  Generalists, with either launch bays or more dakka

Battleships:  Generalists, with one thing they each do a little better than the others

Space Hulk:  The ultimate generalist

What's missing from a list like that?  Specialized mid-sized capital ships.

[LemanRuss]

Fair points for sure. I've never been one to adhere to the idea that all factions of a tabletop game should cover all bases with their available units. The unit types and weapons define a faction as much as the ones they don't have. I understand why you think it would be nice for the orks to have such ships. They have a gap and everybody wants their own team to cover all bases. To me, its a matter of asking whether the orks are broken because they don't have such ships or not. If not, adding the ships is an addition of diversity for diversity's sake and that, to me, is an open door to wishlisting. I sure wish the Astartes list had a class of ships between the strike cruiser and the battlebarge. I'm also fine with the fact that they don't as it is part of what defines them.

[LeperColony]

I think there are a couple of underlying assumptions in your post that I don't necessarily agree with.  Also, the following assumes we're talking about 2010, which it seems like we are.

If you're going to make a new ship, it has to occupy a new role than what is currently available.  Otherwise, why bother?  It's less about "covering all the bases" and more about addressing deficiencies .

Keep in mind, the orks can already get a 6 hit light cruiser.  They just never do, because it isn't a very interesting ship.  It's just a Killa Kroozer on a diet.  So the size class is already there.  Just the reason to take one isn't.

As for the marines, they can take a ship intermediate between a Battle barge and a Strike Cruiser.  The Venerable Battle Barge can be any imperial or chaos battleship, grand cruiser, battlecruiser or heavy cruiser.  Sure, it may only be one ship, but the option is there.

Interestingly, the marines are provided with a cheaper Strike Cruiser (the Vanguard Cruiser) in the Badab War Forge World book.

 

[Lyksus]

I don't know about having more lances... In bfg is not really a Ork thing... Maybe some kind of mega shock attack gun like in the 40k univers (some sort of Nova Cannon rules) but with side effects like doubles does something unintentional.
Or maybe a kroozer that already has double boarding value, or plus 1 to the dice roll and a warlord is just another bonus for boarding...

I could see use for the light kroozers if they had double boarding/+1 in boarding by with standard load the way they are armed now.

[LeperColony]

Orks already have lances in 2010.  I'm not sure where this sentiment that lances are un-orky came from.  Almost every Ork player I know who uses 2010 uses looted lances.

Sure, if the light cruisers had double their boarding value, they would be useful as overgrown brute ram ships.  And a larger ram ship is not an uninteresting design.

[LemanRuss]

Although it's not technicaly false, I think saying orks have access to lances is far from the spirit of the discussion, much like saying that space marines have access to a ship class betwee the barge and the strike cruisers. They can have one as a venerable battlebarge, yes. A single ship that has a minimum fleet size restriction. That's far from being an easy access that can be taken multiple times.

Same goes for ork lances. Sure, you can have some IF you play the ork Clanz list and even then, it'll only be as an upgrade on the ship/squadron of the warlords in the fleet; upgrades that although it is not imposed, should be different between each walord to represent their eccentricity, if one were so inclined as to respect the spirit of that faction. Those upgrades also come at a steep price that must be paid for every ship in the squadron. Again, I'd say that this is far from being the readily available weapon thay orks can get all over their ships that you try to make them to be. You try to make out exceptions as being the rule.

If every ork commander you know uses lances over heavy gunz, that's their perogative and their points investment. Personally, I'd rather have warlords that double my boarding value rather than having access to a few more gubbins for two or three ships. You can even double the boarding value of a lite kroozer...

Edit because I accidentaly some words.

[LeperColony]

In no way am I saying there has to be any particular way people have to play.  If your meta doesn't use looted lances, that's their prerogative.  If you don't like the idea of using your Venerable Battlebarge on a Grand Cruiser or a battlecruiser, that's up to you.

But the simple fact is that the options are there.  They already exist.  So objections to any other ideas based on their absence seem curious to me.