Are Steamtanks worth it?

[Tiberius]

Hello All,

Still brand new to the game, and working on getting my first Empire army together.  I love the idea of a steam tank, but I wonder if it is worth while in Warmaster.  In Warhammer it was a beast that could take all sorts of punishment.  But here it has only 2 attacks and 3 wounds?  That just doesn't seem that good.  It does have a cannon, but I could get double the shots for a lot less with a pair of cannons.  It just seems a little fragile and wimpy.

But I am a noob, please correct me if I am wrong or missing something.

[robbohammer13]

I think it is worth it, at 1K to 2K points, for the 'extra' cannon you get by taking a Steam Tank in your army.

[Aquahog]

Not a fan myself because of the need to "babysit" it with individual orders. I've seen it used to good effect in 2 of the other 3 local Imperial players' armies though.
Also, remember that always count as defended accounts for a lot of the toughness too.

[Aldhick]

Yes, unfortunately it is useless. It needs lot of thinking and luck to use it effectively, which means there are always better choices for the points.
  Being defended is not such a big deal. It is effective only when fighting alone against cavalry, which means the opponent has to be so stupid to charge it. Against infantry you are most of the time loosing by three points (support) even before the combat starts. Having only 4 attack itself gives you little chance to win or even survive the combat. Fighting alongside with other units, opponent can direct most of the attacks elsewhere.
 We houserule it so that it's treated during charge same as chariot (+2 A), we ignore the rule about being destroyed by losing the combat and we added the rule that it never retreats (same as warwagon).

[Stormwind]

Bit dispirited by that as I just dug one out of a blister to build and paint it. =-P

[forbes]

I've found them occasionally useful.

The opponent tends not to want to charge them as bad dice rolls can easily make the combat a draw (or even a loss).

The shooting can be useful.

But I like Aldhick's house rules.

[Tiberius]

Bit dispirited by that as I just dug one out of a blister to build and paint it. =-P

I feel your pain Stormwind.  I think my Steamtank is my best converted model so far so I definitely want to field it.  But I lean towards Aldhick's way of thinking.  In Warhammer it was so useful because it was unbreakable and could live through several rounds of combat, but it does not have that advantage in warmaster without those nifty house rules.  In Warhammer it was kind of the Empire's unique monster, but it does not seem to stack up to the other monsters of Warmaster.

But there are other things to consider than usefulness when picking army, so the Steamtank will probably be making an appearance til I get sick of it.  Or hopefully I can get those house rules in play.

[cjbennett22]

it isn't driven back by shooting attacks  :/  something to be said.  it also moves 20 it's purpose has to be infantry support.  30 range, again, infantry.

could make for a nice sacrificial diversion.  The enemy needs to break it's brigades up to attack it after the tank breaks the brigade up with a cannon anyways and then you can attack them as pieces. 

50/50 it survives an infantry attack, probably 1/4 (at best) it survives a cavalry attack.  even if they do attack it they waste a charge doing so, if they go past it, they have a steam tank behind them when combat is done.

in that case it isn't a direct points for points but the steam tanks worth is in its ability to allow your own infantry to get double or even triple their points.  And there is something to be said, when an infantry brigade can survive a cavalry brigade's charge so anything to up the chances  LOL

[Lex]

Remember, more than most, Empire is an army that thrives on combined Arms tactics.

Steamtank draws fire, and is not driven back, so it is nice to position it to force shooters to attack it, instead of softer targets.
Steamtank positioning is pretty flexible so it allows you to pick your targets of opportunity
Shooting-driveback rules on enemy dictate the driveback from the nearest shooter, NOT the nearest HITTER, so the extra cannon + a well positioned wizard can cause crucial confusion.
Just remember that (as in Real Life) the steamtank benifits from an escort. Use the Empire version of the Trollslayer BBQ....

[Aquahog]

Which is? Separate unit of Flagellants? (That's my point, the steam tank being a separate command element in an already usually large army. Depending on moving it in conjunction with support only increases the rate of failure as compared to a regular brigade).

[cjbennett22]

Lex, where are the definitive rules on drivebacks and driveback directions?

I always thought that driveback was from the unit that scored the most hits.

if it is indeed from the unit with the closest shot then I'm just that much more excited to play as the dwarves.  those gyrocopters are now even more amazing!!!

[Dark Omen]

Hello All,

Still brand new to the game, and working on getting my first Empire army together.  I love the idea of a steam tank, but I wonder if it is worth while in Warmaster.  In Warhammer it was a beast that could take all sorts of punishment.  But here it has only 2 attacks and 3 wounds?  That just doesn't seem that good.  It does have a cannon, but I could get double the shots for a lot less with a pair of cannons.  It just seems a little fragile and wimpy.

But I am a noob, please correct me if I am wrong or missing something.

Are you using the correct ruleset for the Steam Tank? Sounds like you are using the rules from the original rulebook, which were very sub par.
However the moderrn Steam Tank (see living rule book army lists) is a beast with 3/3 attacks and 4 hits.  It is excellent as infantry defence, as anyone charging into contact with it suffers terror and will face 3 shooting attacks then three combat attacks.  And if you want to attack the machine itself you hit on 5's!
Just never charge anything with it as it sucks in combat on the charge, always allow it to be charged to get the most attacks!

[Tiberius]

Are you using the correct ruleset for the Steam Tank? Sounds like you are using the rules from the original rulebook, which were very sub par.
However the moderrn Steam Tank (see living rule book army lists) is a beast with 3/3 attacks and 4 hits.  It is excellent as infantry defence, as anyone charging into contact with it suffers terror and will face 3 shooting attacks then three combat attacks.  And if you want to attack the machine itself you hit on 5's!
Just never charge anything with it as it sucks in combat on the charge, always allow it to be charged to get the most attacks!

You are absolutely right!  I was still looking at the original rulebook.  I didn't realize there were significant changes to the Empire in the updates!  Silly me, I need to look the updates over more closely.  3/3 and 4 hits does sound significantly more awesome.

Are there any other big changes to the Empire I should know?

[Aldhick]

Don't be too enthusiastic.. it's mostly nerf... the cannon is worse and the biggest problem making this choice a big gamble for it's point cost is the rule that it is automaticly destroyed after loosing the combat...

[David Wasilewski]

IMHO Steam Tanks are a "go big or don't bother" kind of unit option for an Empire General who is playing a large game and who wants to go defensive. In the past I have seen a group of steam tanks sit on a hill and cause havoc! One on its own, I wouldn't bother!

Dave