The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (New Years 2022 Update!)

[Zelnik]

<stirs pot... >

So I've taken a deep dive into all the BFG-XR rulesets and such, and well, it's a lot. A fantastic amount of work went into this, which I can tell from experience by just going through it all.

I tend to be more of a purist when it comes to 'da rulez, mainly because I helped create some of them the first time around, and I was in on the discussions with the original content creators behind why some of the rules are the way they are. That being said, good games either evolve or die, and it's great to see this much interest still exists for BFG.

Roy, the other HA's and I have been trading emails back and forth for a little while now. It would be great to see BFG-XR turn into a finished fan-driven ruleset. It would be even better to see it turn into something semi-official, which is the best we can hope for since BFG's been officially dead since 2013. To that end I'll toss a few monkey wrenches into the mix every now and again for argument's sake. When I do, feel free to throw a wrench or two back at me!

- Nate

Hey Nate. I am Zelnik the head of the BFG discord.

The answer is going to be no from at least me and my teams perspective. XR is not as well received as you think it is, and you would have better perspective if you spent more time on the discord server.  XR is not a 'fan based ruleset' in regards to a broad spectrum of the fanbase assists in it's creation, it is the brainchild of two other people who have abandoned the ruleset and has a new steward working on it. Ultimately it is the work of three people.

While I will trumpet his excellent use of words, far superior writing skills and great grasp of what makes a game fun, even the current steward of the rules openly states that XR Is nothing more than a homebrew and is not meant to replace the original rules of the game.

Similarly, the current leadership who are actually pushing new content (our second book is almost done and our first book has been released with all new minis produced from across the fan base, not to mention the living rulebook for Dreadnaught and Gloriana scale vessels) has severe problems with how XR handles the fleet lists and balance issues that revolve around it.

We are planning on coming together to make a 2022 FAQ to tidy up the rules of the original game without changing it into something else.

I strongly suggest you come talk with us on the more modern platforms, as I fear you and the other HA have boxed yourselves into an echo chamber.

Also, on a personal note:  Soulforge Studios, Vanguard Miniatures, Battlefleet Galaxy, Italianmoose, Foreigner Forever and others have made and re-made the entire game in a format that anyone can purchase on the cheap, we have nearly a thousand people in the BFG discord and new content books planned three books out.  We even have made the Rak Gol fleet from scratch.

Calling this game 'dead' is tone deaf and inaccurate. It is an insult to the growing fanbase and spits in the eye of everyone that has done work with us over the course of the last year and a half. 


--Zelnik

[horizon]

True, 2021 was one of the best years for Battlefleet Gothic since its existence.

[flybywire-E2C]

Hi everyone! This is a reply to Roy, but he's already seen this in the emails the HA's are bantering around. I just wanted to share with everyone what's in my head space as we talk about BFG going forward. Here goes... [added notes in brackets]

Hi Roy! I hope you're doing well and feeling blessed today. You're right about most of what you wrote, and your email is exactly my point. BFG-XR has some really good ideas in it, but a lot of it is just fanboy extremism: each fleet's tactical shortcomings are solved by changing the rules with "more is better" instead of developing strategy and tactics. It's madness, and a lot of it is a far cry from what BFG was supposed to be like. Then again, fanboy extremism and "more is better" seems to be the GW trend in general over the last few years.

We need to be wary of doing the same thing before we disparage someone else's effort. I've played Eldar MMS, and it works well, but it's not fun. The Eldar are fun because they're glass cannons, shooty and twisty but complete garbage when cornered. "Fixing" Eldar with MMS, then "fixing" MMS by giving them shields and better armor just turns them into another shade of vanilla.

All that being said, there's a lot of potential for BFG to grow, even if it's all post-mortem in an official capacity. GW lore after the 14th Black Crusade made canon the existence of vast command ships [Glorianas?], hulking mass conveyers, and a raft of new Imperial and Chaos ship classes. Fantasy Flight Games brought to life several ships that beforehand appeared only once in early issues of BFG, then vanished without a trace. The recent Tau Codex has them allied with nearly a dozen alien races now, some of which have ships described in lore and (for Vespids) GW model ranges in their own right. BFG is fun not just because it's a cool game, but because it's a cool story, a story that adds a chapter every time we set up our models and start rolling dice.

I'm not saying for anyone to jump on the BFG-XR bandwagon [or not]. What I'm saying is we're not the only authors of all good ideas, and other ideas may not be dumb just because they weren't ours first. If we all get invited out [to] the same table and hash it out, it will take time, but what's the rush? It's a game, so let's game on and enjoy! 

[flybywire-E2C]

<pulls wax out of my ears>

And Zelnik, I never meant to offend. Nobody is more excited than me to see BFG more alive and vibrant than it's ever been. I actually have some of Italianmoose's and Soulforge's models, and they're brilliant.

Monkey wrench received. Ouch!

Thanks for working so hard to keep the game awesome. I'm ready to assist however I can.

- Nate

[Xca|iber]

<pulls wax out of my ears>

And Zelnik, I never meant to offend. Nobody is more excited than me to see BFG more alive and vibrant than it's ever been. I actually have some of Italianmoose's and Soulforge's models, and they're brilliant.

Monkey wrench received. Ouch!

Thanks for working so hard to keep the game awesome. I'm ready to assist however I can.

- Nate

Don't worry too much about Zelnik; his distaste for XR is already exhaustively documented. The rest of the community is well aware of the various rulesets that are currently available for BFG, of which XR is merely one small option.

He is correct that I would not seek to make XR the "official" form of BFG. It's an alternative, expanded ruleset that works for my playgroup, which I share with others (most of whom seem to adopt it because of the format more than anything else  ) simply because I can. There's lots of stuff in it that leans more on "modern" wargaming trends as well as 5e+ 40k content, both of which I understand are not desirable to some people (heck, there's plenty of current 40k lore and game design aspects that I myself detest). It's not something I want to force upon anyone nor the community as a whole.

If there are parts of the XR ruleset you like, then that's great - use those as much as you want and leave the rest. If you don't like any of it, that's fair too. There's the excellent BFG:Remastered by Simon Saier which is strictly the Official + 2010FAQ (and I believe will have the faction lists at some point soon), if that's more your speed.

In either case, I'm always happy to see XR getting the attention of folks from the HA. It's great to see such long term commitment to the game and the community.

Thanks!