July 03, 2024, 11:18:49 PM

Author Topic: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (New Years 2022 Update!)  (Read 195265 times)

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (New Year's Update 2/10/2019)
« Reply #375 on: January 14, 2020, 07:36:11 PM »
This is Awesome! Just got a 3d printer and plan on printing some proxies. Would love to try the BFG:XR lists!

Offline Xca|iber

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It's time. I finally did it. What is it? It is one of the three "lower priority" books I planned to make back when I started this in 2015. That's right, it's time for SCENARIOS!

HOWEVER! These come at a cost - well, more like a pay-what-you-want scheme really. What is the cost you ask? Well what I'd like from all of you is your time and experience... aka playtesting! I get a lot of feedback from different people periodically, but many of you all in the community have different ideas and perspectives that I can't all put into the XR rules. In the interest of trying to make the best standalone BFG experience that I can, I'd like to get playtesting data from as many of you as I can, as often as I can, for a variety of things "on the docket" so to speak (concerns people have brought up).

The list of issues is over at the BFG:XR 2020 Balance Initiative thread. I'll use the my second post there to also maintain a list of specific solutions that I'd like people to test. I should have a few priority things up there later today.

Once again thank you for reading and all your support over the years. Stay safe out there!

-Xca|iber


P.S. I promise this isn't an April Fool's joke.
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BFG:XR - The Battlefleet Gothic Expanded Revised Rules Project

Offline Fr05ty

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That's amazing X! Does that mean that the only thing that isn't in your BFG:XR books are the Campaign rules?

Offline Xca|iber

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That and the "Gothic Sector and Beyond" pdf I was going to make of all the lore pages I stripped out of the main rulebook and other faction books. Sadly that one will probably never be made (not in the next 5 years at least  ;D), as it's not directly game related.
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BFG:XR - The Battlefleet Gothic Expanded Revised Rules Project

Offline Ragsta

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This compilation is a black monolith of hard work! Reworking such vast reams of data is pretty formidable and it looks  darn good!
Leaving out the lore is however unacceptable- what else do you have to do now you're in Lockdown huh? Huh?  :P

I think I need to print this grand tome off now...

Offline Xca|iber

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This compilation is a black monolith of hard work! Reworking such vast reams of data is pretty formidable and it looks  darn good!
Leaving out the lore is however unacceptable- what else do you have to do now you're in Lockdown huh? Huh?  :P

I think I need to print this grand tome off now...

Well, to answer your question...  ;D

I'm working on a major, MAJOR update of the main rulebook and all the faction books. I'd hold off on getting a printing just yet.
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BFG:XR - The Battlefleet Gothic Expanded Revised Rules Project

Offline Ragsta

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I look forward to it tremendously! Having all the rules and fluff in a single time would be awesome, I would print and bind that sucker in a heart beat.

Take your time, your doing this at all is really something. I have current fleets to finish off anyway... Maybe I'll use your next revision as an incentive to start a new fleet.

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (SCENARIOS! Not-April-Fool's 2020!)
« Reply #382 on: December 27, 2020, 02:48:15 AM »
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours, SpecArms community!

As many of you probably already saw through Discord and social media, there's a big update for BFG:XR that just dropped yesterday. The links are on the first page.

I'm trying my best to keep up with this thread, but I don't check the forums as regularly as I used to. Message me on the SpecArms Discord server, the BFG:XR FB page, or via email if you have an urgent question or issue.

Thanks!


-Xca|iber
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BFG:XR - The Battlefleet Gothic Expanded Revised Rules Project

Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (Dec. 25th 2020 Update!)
« Reply #383 on: December 27, 2020, 06:14:52 AM »
So, the murderous Eldar msm is back then. ;)


Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (Dec. 25th 2020 Update!)
« Reply #384 on: December 27, 2020, 07:16:38 AM »
So, the murderous Eldar msm is back then. ;)

I tried my best to compromise between MSM and MMS as much as possible, believe me. The survey favored bringing it back, but I don't want to completely alienate MMS fans if I can help it. Limiting turn rate and requiring CtNH orders to MSM should help mitigate things like the peekaboo strategy and make choosing to MSM more of a risk.
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Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (Dec. 25th 2020 Update!)
« Reply #385 on: December 27, 2020, 09:09:46 AM »
Oh, as I wrote earlier I would always advice official (thus MSM) rules over any fanmade rules in the first place when someone is starting the game.

But I have no idea how you did come to the changes. Eldar MMS took various steps to get to a balanced ruleset. I'm not sure if the new XR variant is based on theory (which for a starter is fine) but also has seen a lot of playtesting.

Not sure if they were there before but I do like the Necron defences. Have a bad feeling about Marine venerable barges (Basicallt the must of a 6+ armour eludes me in terms of background. Then again. I haven't kept up with what GW did in the last years). And need to read much more of the other stuff.

On Rogue Traders:
I cannot find how much fortune a captain starts with.

And the Galleon build rules seem a little unclear. Can I build this:

Chassis +60
Galleon +20
extra Shield +15
No dorsal weapon picked
two sets of large batteries  +60
Prow torpedoes +25

Thus for a total of 180 points I get a ship with :
20 weapon batteries to each side?

That's off.

Or a Lunar equivalent
Chassis + Galleon + Shield + Prow = 115 points
Heavy Lance + 45
Small weapons battery +15
Torpedoes +25
= 200 points.
Thus for having +20 points I gain +4 lances on the ship.

Plus two refits.

I could be missing the fortune effect.

But I think every Imperial Fleet is going to want to incorporate one of these.

But also: you cannot have a 100% Rogue Trader fleet anymore? That's a pity.
 
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 09:12:27 AM by horizon »

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (Dec. 25th 2020 Update!)
« Reply #386 on: December 28, 2020, 12:59:46 AM »
Quote
But I have no idea how you did come to the changes. Eldar MMS took various steps to get to a balanced ruleset. I'm not sure if the new XR variant is based on theory (which for a starter is fine) but also has seen a lot of playtesting.

A lot is theory, built on feedback from MSM and XR players. The majority of the responses I received from my survey (both the recent one and the commentary I received about 6 months ago) boiled down to this:

  • MSM players would not accept anything that didn't have the ability to move after shooting (in some capacity).
  • MMS players had the biggest problem with MSM and holofields having no risk/counterplay.

So I built a compromise based on those premises. Obviously I'll have to gather further data as people play more and more with it, but I knew if I tried getting both sides to agree on a satisfactory set of mechanics, I'd be waiting until the sun burned out (40k fans are a contentious bunch after all).

Quote
Have a bad feeling about Marine venerable barges (Basicallt the must of a 6+ armour eludes me in terms of background. Then again. I haven't kept up with what GW did in the last years).

This was the best way to make Venerable's more expensive (and thus not the every-game go-to option), and to match with some of the Heresy fluff I'm peripherally aware of. (Though like you I'm not 100% up to speed on what GW's been saying recently).

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On Rogue Traders:
I cannot find how much fortune a captain starts with.

Warrant of Trade origins, on page 115. Note that only a Rogue Trader themselves has a Fortune rating, so you can't just take a Bond Captain if you have anything that costs Fortune.

Quote
And the Galleon build rules seem a little unclear. Can I build this:

Chassis +60
Galleon +20
extra Shield +15
No dorsal weapon picked
two sets of large batteries  +60
Prow torpedoes +25

Thus for a total of 180 points I get a ship with :
20 weapon batteries to each side?

That's off.

This is correct, but remember that it requires a +50 point Rogue Trader with at least 5 Fortune. For comparison, an Avenger with Torpedoes is 225 points, with +1 Shield, +2 HP, and +1 Turret. So if you're slotting in a Rogue Trader with just their Man O' War, equipped as you've described, you're actually at 230pts with less performance than the equivalent Avenger (other than type limit). If you take any refits, you're adding points cost + more Fortune costs, meaning you're probably taking 10pt Caravels.

Naturally, I'll keep an eye on any feedback I'm getting; if does turn out to be too easy to slot in powerful RT ships, I'll go back through the costing scheme to limit that.

Quote
But also: you cannot have a 100% Rogue Trader fleet anymore? That's a pity.

I tried my best to keep it in, but the more I worked at it, the more I realized I was just duplicating an Imperial Navy fleet list. In the end it had no real character of its own, so I dropped it. One day I might take another crack at it, but probably not for the foreseeable future.
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Offline horizon

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (Dec. 25th 2020 Update!)
« Reply #387 on: December 28, 2020, 07:31:17 AM »
Yah, lets wait and see on those Eldar.

(Sidenote: you should make a presence on the Reddit BFG sub as well. I placed the update there. They are quite active. And next to this forum the only online BFG place I visit (blech that facebook ;) ).

On the VBB's : I found them rather sparse in lists to be honest. Most people using the regular Barge. And I think it is a bit weird to have an Imperial Emperor with 5+ armour and a VBB with 6+ armour. They have been build in the same age.

On the Fortune:maybe add the fortune to the Captain entry in the fleet list as well?

Hmm on the list. My RT fleet is nothing like my Imperial fleet.

From a Reddit reply:
Quote
EDIT: The other thing that’d be nice is a PDF of people’s ships nicely painted and zoomed in so that we could add a colour splash halfway through the book, model pics are one of my favourite parts of a rulebook
Feel free to roam the GothiComps ;) Or open a topic requesting pictures for the various fleets & ships.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 07:33:24 AM by horizon »

Offline Xca|iber

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (Dec. 25th 2020 Update!)
« Reply #388 on: December 28, 2020, 08:01:48 AM »
Quote
(Sidenote: you should make a presence on the Reddit BFG sub as well. I placed the update there. They are quite active. And next to this forum the only online BFG place I visit (blech that facebook ;) ).

Will do... eventually.  ;D

Quote
On the VBB's : I found them rather sparse in lists to be honest. Most people using the regular Barge. And I think it is a bit weird to have an Imperial Emperor with 5+ armour and a VBB with 6+ armour. They have been build in the same age.

Admittedly, the venerables are sorta supposed to represent some of the "new" (heresy-era) concepts for Space Marines (e.g. the idea that they had a bunch of these mega ships like the Gloriana). At the same time, my aim was to generally keep them away from being a min-max option, which is something I was concerned about given the other improvements to SM. I had several convos with folks regarding how the old VBB system could be cheesed, and I wanted to take that down pre-emptively.

I'm open to reducing the Armor and prices down the road if it seems like it won't break the rest of the SM list.

Quote
Feel free to roam the GothiComps ;) Or open a topic requesting pictures for the various fleets & ships.

That's a cool idea. Might be something I look at doing if I put together a "lore book" pdf.
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Offline Thinking Stone

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Re: The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (Dec. 25th 2020 Update!)
« Reply #389 on: January 09, 2021, 03:45:53 PM »

(Sidenote: you should make a presence on the Reddit BFG sub as well. I placed the update there. They are quite active. And next to this forum the only online BFG place I visit (blech that facebook ;) ).


That Reddit is surprisingly populated! Even I might have to stop lurking and spread my heretical ideas over there... :P It is kind of a pity that there's so much fragmentation. I guess Facebook and Reddit are the two main groups nowadays.



The Rogue Traders are quite interesting, @Xca|iber! On @horizon's disappointment at the lack of 'pure' Rogue Trader fleets, I think there's a fair point about a lot of Rogue Traders (or merchant fleets) being escorted by Imperial fleets or part of some joint expedition (which the Detachment or Reserve rules would cover well—though thinking about @horizon's other point about people taking RT Detachments willy-nilly, I kind of wonder if the Reserves/Allies/Detachment system ought to be tightened up... but you already know I think the Reserves system is a bit dodgy!).

But I think there's also something to be said for making a fleet that's composed entirely of transports with guns with highlights of speccy RT warships. For sake of example, what's the problem with allowing one Bond Captain per Rogue Trader convoy squadron, thereby letting you have enough fighting ships (limited by Fortune) to make a credible fleet? I'm sure there's reasoning behind it, but it seems to me like that would be different from an Imperial fleet, at least.

I guess part of the problem with RTs is that the transport rules of BFG were never developed beyond the fairly rudimentary escort-sized transports (so you can't make a transport fleet that can fight) and that the Tau Kor'vattra basically fills the merchant fleet trope.



Some editorial suggestions!

There is a typo on page 114 (Ships of the Imperium, Rogue Traders 'Customised Starships' section) where you refer to pages 7-8 (where you presumably mean pg 116-117).

Also, is there any guidance for the size of Fleet Detachments except that the Detachment should be smaller than the main fleet? I.e. you can have a Fleet Detachment of up to 50% - 1 of the total fleet value?

I wonder if you might also want to put a contents page for the fleet books, since they're all combined into one now?