The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (New Years 2022 Update!)

[Green_Squad_Leader]

For the Savage I am recommending changing it to have Firepower 2(6) Heavy Gunz, firepower 4(6) makes them into a reliable midrange gunship escort and that harms their theme.  With Firepower 2(6) they are essentially cobras outside of 15cm.

Overall the values of the various ships should be:
Battleships/Battlekroozers: Heavy Gunz: 6(10)
Kroozers: Prow Heavy Gunz 6(10), Flank Heavy Gunz 4(6)
Lite Kroozers: Heavy Gunz 4(6)
Smashas: Heavy Gunz 2(6)
Space Hulk: Heavy Gunz 8(12)
Ork Rok: Heavy Gunz 2(6)

I really would caution retaining the free ship bonus. If i have a squadron of 6 Smasha at leadership 5/6 that means that i am getting 60 free points vs the original list (30 from the price change, 30 from the free escort.).  I just played a match yesterday doing a Convoy mission with 3 escort squadrons. The match was a 400 point game for the defender and i had 3 LD 5 squadrons, so counting the free ships and the points decrease (all 3 squadrons were 5 ship squadrons) I had 160 free points!  I CRUSHED my opponent as a result.

Without the points decrease I would have had 85 free points, with the decrease but without the free ships I would have 75 free points.  Both effects are roughly equivalent much of the time, but put together it is simply WAY too good for a small game. Put bluntly the two effects taken together means that MOST of the time Ork escorts are effectively discounted by 10 points per model!  Its just too easy to abuse that.  Scaled it up to a 1000 point game and I could easily have almost 300 points of "free" stuff.

[Cybersmith]

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As far as status, I'm working on a broader set of updates that will get released along with the changes to Orks, and hopefully another thing that I know some people have been waiting for.

<3

[Xca|iber]

For the Savage I am recommending changing it to have Firepower 2(6) Heavy Gunz, firepower 4(6) makes them into a reliable midrange gunship escort and that harms their theme.  With Firepower 2(6) they are essentially cobras outside of 15cm.

Overall the values of the various ships should be:
Battleships/Battlekroozers: Heavy Gunz: 6(10)
Kroozers: Prow Heavy Gunz 6(10), Flank Heavy Gunz 4(6)
Lite Kroozers: Heavy Gunz 4(6)
Smashas: Heavy Gunz 2(6)
Space Hulk: Heavy Gunz 8(12)
Ork Rok: Heavy Gunz 2(6)

Thanks for clarifying that. Also, thanks for reminding me that Hulks and Roks have Heavy Gunz...

I really would caution retaining the free ship bonus. If i have a squadron of 6 Smasha at leadership 5/6 that means that i am getting 60 free points vs the original list (30 from the price change, 30 from the free escort.).  I just played a match yesterday doing a Convoy mission with 3 escort squadrons. The match was a 400 point game for the defender and i had 3 LD 5 squadrons, so counting the free ships and the points decrease (all 3 squadrons were 5 ship squadrons) I had 160 free points!  I CRUSHED my opponent as a result.

Without the points decrease I would have had 85 free points, with the decrease but without the free ships I would have 75 free points.  Both effects are roughly equivalent much of the time, but put together it is simply WAY too good for a small game. Put bluntly the two effects taken together means that MOST of the time Ork escorts are effectively discounted by 10 points per model!  Its just too easy to abuse that.  Scaled it up to a 1000 point game and I could easily have almost 300 points of "free" stuff.

I suppose you may be right. In any case, removing the bonus escort bit will give me room to add a few extra clarifications and formatting things, which should make the rules easier to read.

[Xca|iber]

Great news everybody, we made it! (Well, this far at least). Today marks the release of BFG:XR Rogue Trader,
 and the completion of all the BFG:XR faction books! I know it took forever to get this last book out, but I'm hoping the end product makes it worthwhile 

>> The major changes you'll see between this version and the BFG:R version are:

> The main body of ships and upgrades are derived from horizon and AndrewChristLieb's Rogue Trader fleet list, which they made for afterimagedan but was never published.
> A lot of ship classes have been renamed to make them easier to reference, and easier to distinguish from their counterparts in other fleets.
> Many ships have been updated to keep them current with their duplicates in other fleets.
> RT-specific transport ships have been updated to be more clear as to their use (esp. regarding the Fleet Support ruleset).
> Xenos vessels (both allies and the specific escorts) have been reworked to be almost entirely separate from the rest of the RT ships and squadrons, to prevent weird and unnecessary problems of faction-mixing and non-uniform refitting on escorts.
> The Fra'al BC and Stryxis Caravans are still in the book. The Fra'al even have their Ether Cannon back (but in a toned down way).
> All 3 fleet lists from BFG:R are present. So you can take RTs as allies in other fleets (similar to how the Inquisition does it), or you can take a standalone RT or Pirate fleet.

Along with this release are several major game updates:

>> First up, the Orks have been substantially updated with regard to the discussion in this thread. Here's what's new:

> Heavy Gunz are now normal WBs with two firepower values, written as X(Y). X is used for targets 15cm or further, while Y is used for targets within 15cm. They also combine normally with regular Gunz when fired together. This reduces a lot of excess rolling (when firing all your weapons) and flattens out the damage potential on Ork ships just a bit.
> Zzapp Gunz inflict a blast marker on the firer if their random strength rolls a 1 on the D6. This doesn't apply to 1-shot and fixed-strength zzapps.
> Mob rule allows an escort squadron to roll command checks using their squad size as Ld (max . It also allows a squadron to test even if another command check has been failed, but they must use their squad size to do so (even if it's worse than their normal Ld)
> (NOTE: THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED IN THREAD) Clan upgrades have been substantially re-worked. Each commander may purchase a clan upgrade for +20pts. This applies to his own squad, plus 1 extra squad if he is a Big Boss, or 2 extra squads if he is a Mega Boss. The bonuses are updated as previously discussed in this thread.
> Crusiers (but not the Basha) have been reduced 10pts in cost.
> Escorts have been reduced 5ps in cost.
> The cost of replacing Heavy Gunz with Zzapps has been slightly reduced in a few places.
> Various other fixes (mistakes, typos, and such).

>> Next, I've updated the wording on Boarding Actions in the main rulebook and all of the affected faction books. This is basically a non-change in terms of gameplay, but a lot of people were still getting tripped up on how boarding bonuses were working. It should be more clear now how Boarding Value --> Base Damage Bonus, and how special crew types (SM, CSM, etc) impact damage through the Crew Damage Bonus.

>> Several other fleets have been updated with various fixes to formatting, typos, as well as a few interactions with the new Rogue Trader fleet list.


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Whew! I'm so very glad to be done with the faction books. Not that I didn't enjoy making them, but I'm ready to move on to something a little different looking (aka the Scenarios book). Once again I'm sorry it took so long for all you Rogue Trader fans out there - I should have done a better job of managing my work energy. Now that the book is out though, please feel free to go through it and let me know what you think!

As always, thank you to the entire community for all your support; it's made this whole experience so much easier than if I had to go it alone  (I probably wouldn't have gotten this far otherwise).

Cheers,

-Xca|iber

[Lord Borak]

I must say, the Rogue Trader list is AWESOME.

It's exactly what I've been looking for for my own fleet of Transport Vessels come Warships. My one (and only one) complaint is that you have to keep scrolling from the fleet list section all the way back to the start of the file to check the Customised ships refits. Or at least I do....... That's a petty little complaint though. Overall the feeling is great. I love the little merchantmen vessels.


You do realise you can make an Avenger with 45cm Weapon Batteries and a Targeting Matrix. That's quite horrific for 230pts (or 215 if you have the fleet commander on there with his free upgrade). Grand Cruiseers with +1 Hull point is pretty funky too. Almost like light Battleships.

Are the Bond-Captains supposed to be 75pts?? That's expensive for just +1LD.

[Xca|iber]

I must say, the Rogue Trader list is AWESOME.

It's exactly what I've been looking for for my own fleet of Transport Vessels come Warships. My one (and only one) complaint is that you have to keep scrolling from the fleet list section all the way back to the start of the file to check the Customised ships refits. Or at least I do....... That's a petty little complaint though. Overall the feeling is great. I love the little merchantmen vessels.


You do realise you can make an Avenger with 45cm Weapon Batteries and a Targeting Matrix. That's quite horrific for 230pts (or 215 if you have the fleet commander on there with his free upgrade). Grand Cruiseers with +1 Hull point is pretty funky too. Almost like light Battleships.

Are the Bond-Captains supposed to be 75pts?? That's expensive for just +1LD.

Thanks 

And yes, AFAIK the modded Grand Cruisers are supposed to be pretty cool, since RTs don't get battleships of any kind, and have very little ordnance.

Bond-Captains are not supposed to be 75 points, only 15. I've fixed it just now.

[Lord Borak]

Cool. I'm not sure if it was intentional but the Grand Cruisers are listed as just Cruisers in their 'Type'. I'm guessing they're not meant to be able to squadron with normal cruisers?

[Xca|iber]

Grand, Heavy, and Battle cruisers are always "Type: Cruiser" in their profiles. But you are correct, Men O' War form squadrons like Grand Cruisers (and therefore only with other Men O' War / Grand Cruisers). I've updated the document to be a bit more specific about this.

[Green_Squad_Leader]

Very cool to hit this milestone and the new Ork Fleet list looks great. They should be far more straight forward to play now (ie: point ships at enemy, shout WAAAAAGH!!!).

I like the compromises on the clanz rules applying to squadrons, thats simpler than having a 30 point 'clan support' tax. The revised clanz rules look great for thpse purposes as well.

This does mean that Orks COULD have a Leadership 10 ship now with a blood axe kapitan.

[Lord Borak]

Grand, Heavy, and Battle cruisers are always "Type: Cruiser" in their profiles. But you are correct, Men O' War form squadrons like Grand Cruisers (and therefore only with other Men O' War / Grand Cruisers). I've updated the document to be a bit more specific about this.

Except when it's in Armada Thanks for the Clarification though. I've spent the whole day at work working out my fleet list God help me but you need a lot of escorts with that fleet :S

[Lord Borak]

Just wondering. Was there any reason you aren't allowed to take Torpedoes on the Dauntless light cruisers? Seeing as Lances are hard to maintain it seems natural that they'd convert them to Torpedoes. Or were you trying to limit the amount of ordinance available?

I know it's a long shot but......... Is there any chance you could make an option for the brigantine to have additional launch bays? Str3 per side for example? (A bit like the Jovian).

[Xca|iber]

Just wondering. Was there any reason you aren't allowed to take Torpedoes on the Dauntless light cruisers? Seeing as Lances are hard to maintain it seems natural that they'd convert them to Torpedoes. Or were you trying to limit the amount of ordinance available?

I know it's a long shot but......... Is there any chance you could make an option for the brigantine to have additional launch bays? Str3 per side for example? (A bit like the Jovian).

Indeed, limited ordnance is one of the fleet's primary balancing factors. It's something that horizon and AndrewChristLieb kept very consistent between their version of BFG:R Rogue Traders and afterimagedan's initial concept draft. Lances are similarly limited (although not quite as much, due to Xenos stuff and no longer having an extra point tax for them).

One can think of it as RTs are more along the lines of classical warships rather than a modern navy. They are then boosted by the "power of free enterprise," aka the ability to buy custom upgrades for their ships and escorts, and the ability to bring along allies (again for a fee, of course).

...So unless I've missed something in horizon's version of the rules (always a possibility ), I'm afraid the ordnance options for Rogue Traders will likely stay as they are.

[Lord Borak]

That's fine. I'm still scratching my head trying to make a 1500pt list....... Every time I write a list with everything I want it ends up at nearly 2k! 

I can always ally in a Dauntless with Torpedoes anyway so no big deal.

[horizon]

That is indeed the intention. Rogue Traders have a more limited access to attack craft and/or lances. And torpedoes are not unlimited. The Imperial Navy may have lots of them but for Rogue Traders these are much harder to acquire. So they'll be less seen in a Trader's fleet.

So, yeah, Xca|iber did copy them as intended.

He fatally dropped "Like a Leaf in the Wind" which was one of the very first things to find a permanent place in any Rogue Trader lists I worked on. (Wasn't my idea to come with it but it sounded perfect). Firefly!

[Xca|iber]

He fatally dropped "Like a Leaf in the Wind" which was one of the very first things to find a permanent place in any Rogue Trader lists I worked on. (Wasn't my idea to come with it but it sounded perfect). Firefly!

I wasn't sure people would understand the reference, and technically "Leaf on the Wind" isn't actually a technological 'system', so I tweaked it just a bit 

And in a general sense, the reference is still there...