The BFG: Expanded Revised Rules Thread (New Years 2022 Update!)

[Green_Squad_Leader]

I can't find the option to equip boarding torpedoes anywhere in the fleet lists. Am I just blind or is this an oversight? 

[Xca|iber]

-->Teeny tiny status update here<--
I'm still around, and still planning to continue the project; just taking a bit of a break during the holiday season to work on some other stuff (both RL and nerd things ). We'll be back to regular updates in the new year. Stay warm out there! (or cool, for our fellow captains in the Southern Hemisphere)

Friendly bump.  I'm happy to lend a hand now that I'm home for a while.

Thanks!

I can't find the option to equip boarding torpedoes anywhere in the fleet lists. Am I just blind or is this an oversight? 

Which list in particular? Not all the fleets have access to boarding torpedoes, but I'm pretty sure I got all the ones that are supposed to have them. On a quick look through, there's:

Chaos (p. 37-44; in the fleet lists under "Ordnance and Upgrades")
Dark Eldar (under the "torpedo" Kabal variant for each ship)
Eldar (p. 6 & 12; Void Stalker/Wyrm Battleship "Special Torpedo" options)
Inquisition (p. 15-16; in the fleet lists under "Ordnance and Upgrades")
Orks (p. 21; in the fleet list under "Ordnance and Upgrades")
Space Marines (p. 14-15; in the fleet list under "Ordnance and Upgrades")
Tyranids (p. 4; rules for hull borers are equal to boarding torpedoes)

^^ That should be everything, unless I've missed an option from BFG:R that I forgot to transcribe. Hope that helps! 

[Blacksails]

Cheers man, have a happy holiday!

I'm getting some more games in these days, mostly IN vs Necrons and finding them a good challenge.  I haven't beaten them yet, but out of 3 matches, 2 have been within 100pts at the end, though that's using standard VP calcs, not the old Necron rules.  Mostly the losses have been due to my stupidity or incredibly bad rolling at super important moments (like flubbing all my leadership checks/re-rolls in the crucial turn where everything needed to be locked on).

My opponent loves the rules too, seeing as the XR Necrons are much more versatile in list building than the old list and generally provides more thought in application on the tabletop.

[Green_Squad_Leader]

Which list in particular? Not all the fleets have access to boarding torpedoes, but I'm pretty sure I got all the ones that are supposed to have them. On a quick look through, there's:


^^ That should be everything, unless I've missed an option from BFG:R that I forgot to transcribe. Hope that helps! 

Ah thanks they used to have it listed at the start of the fleet lists so that's where I looked.

[AJCHVY]

So I have a few questions/comments about the Ork:XR rules

Regarding ork lances, I understand from a fluff point that ork lances are looted/haphazard weapons, but why make them a bad choice? Placing a blast marker behind the ship when you fire any lances is something I'd rather not do. Losing a shield just because I fired a weapon seems to me, less than balanced, and no other fleet has any weapons that are detrimental to fire.

Orks are already a fairly short ranged fleet with little access to reliable lances, and even then they are they are pricey. A kill kroozer with its front and P/S heavy gunz replaced with lances costs 190pts before any other upgrades, where the closest thing IN gets, a Lunar crsuier, is 180pts. Yes the Lunar has 2 lances on each side, and none to the front, but Lunars also have 1 more shield, better rear armor, and more reliable turrets and Ld.

And before you say anything, I know orks can get double or even more lance shots if you roll well, but on average you will get 3 shots per arc, and until my other question about fire arcs is resolved (in the main BFG page), I'd rather not take ork lances as losing my 1 shield is not worth it.

Another question about one of the Warboss upgrades-
The Ork Soopa Tellyporta (the ship may conduct its teleport hit and run at 30cm). This upgrade too me seems a little overpriced. It is currently 30 points for an upgrade that has a very specific purpose, and may only be used as long as the enemy ship has no shields, and the ork ship is not crippled. I would suggest reducing it down to 15 or so, as it costs 10 points for space marines to get a second teleport attack in addition to their normal one which also gets to roll 2 dice and pick the result, and all are at their +1 to H&R attacks.

I know space marines may also buy Terminators, which at 50pts seems like too much.

TL;DR Ork lances are bad and the soopa tellyporta is overcosted

[Cybersmith]

Are the following a typo/copy-paste mistakes or intentional?

Chaos Grand Cruiser Retaliator buys torpedo bombers at 40 pts for str 6 launch bays.

Chaos Styx class Heavy Cruiser buys torpedo bombers at 80 pts for str 6 launch bays.

Chaos Hecate class Heavy Cruiser buys torpedo bombers at 80 pts for str 4 launch bays.


P.S. any news of the Rogue Trader list? 

[Tves]

I have a question, is there any particular reason for the turret value changes in the Bakkafleet.

In revised there were 2 variants of the bakkafleet.
#1 in the seperate Bakkafleet document you have the ships with the extra turret value already included in the stats.
#2 in the Imperial Navy Bakkafleet list you had the option of purchasing +1 turret value at 5 points.

In the BFG XR You have in the bakkafleet list all the cruiser types with +1 turret value already included and payed for (via footnote) and all of a sudden the option of purchasing addititional turret values. Ending up with a 180 point Lunar with a Turret value of 4.

Also on a side note, is there any reason the Dominator class cruiser dropped from the bakkafleet between editions?

[Xca|iber]

So I have a few questions/comments about the Ork:XR rules

Regarding ork lances, I understand from a fluff point that ork lances are looted/haphazard weapons, but why make them a bad choice? Placing a blast marker behind the ship when you fire any lances is something I'd rather not do. Losing a shield just because I fired a weapon seems to me, less than balanced, and no other fleet has any weapons that are detrimental to fire.

Orks are already a fairly short ranged fleet with little access to reliable lances, and even then they are they are pricey. A kill kroozer with its front and P/S heavy gunz replaced with lances costs 190pts before any other upgrades, where the closest thing IN gets, a Lunar crsuier, is 180pts. Yes the Lunar has 2 lances on each side, and none to the front, but Lunars also have 1 more shield, better rear armor, and more reliable turrets and Ld.

And before you say anything, I know orks can get double or even more lance shots if you roll well, but on average you will get 3 shots per arc, and until my other question about fire arcs is resolved (in the main BFG page), I'd rather not take ork lances as losing my 1 shield is not worth it.

Another question about one of the Warboss upgrades-
The Ork Soopa Tellyporta (the ship may conduct its teleport hit and run at 30cm). This upgrade too me seems a little overpriced. It is currently 30 points for an upgrade that has a very specific purpose, and may only be used as long as the enemy ship has no shields, and the ork ship is not crippled. I would suggest reducing it down to 15 or so, as it costs 10 points for space marines to get a second teleport attack in addition to their normal one which also gets to roll 2 dice and pick the result, and all are at their +1 to H&R attacks.

I know space marines may also buy Terminators, which at 50pts seems like too much.

TL;DR Ork lances are bad and the soopa tellyporta is overcosted

I'm in the process of considering these changes. The BFG:R Orks list was never truly finished (the last version was voted on but never actually published - there's a link to it in this thread I think) so I'm willing to give it another pass once I'm back on schedule with the project. (The same holds true for the AdMech stuff discussed on previous pages... I haven't forgotten about it  )

Are the following a typo/copy-paste mistakes or intentional?

Chaos Grand Cruiser Retaliator buys torpedo bombers at 40 pts for str 6 launch bays.

Chaos Styx class Heavy Cruiser buys torpedo bombers at 80 pts for str 6 launch bays.

Chaos Hecate class Heavy Cruiser buys torpedo bombers at 80 pts for str 4 launch bays.


P.S. any news of the Rogue Trader list? 

Those are typos, yes. They have been fixed. Thanks for pointing them out.

Regarding Rogue Traders... the document is in progress, but I've been taking some time off to work on other things. Rest assured it will get done at some point.

I have a question, is there any particular reason for the turret value changes in the Bakkafleet.

In revised there were 2 variants of the bakkafleet.
#1 in the seperate Bakkafleet document you have the ships with the extra turret value already included in the stats.
#2 in the Imperial Navy Bakkafleet list you had the option of purchasing +1 turret value at 5 points.

In the BFG XR You have in the bakkafleet list all the cruiser types with +1 turret value already included and payed for (via footnote) and all of a sudden the option of purchasing addititional turret values. Ending up with a 180 point Lunar with a Turret value of 4.

Also on a side note, is there any reason the Dominator class cruiser dropped from the bakkafleet between editions?

Both Revised versions of the Bakka list (IN and separate) allow for the +1 turret for +5 point option. (For the IN list, it is under "THE SHIPS OF BATTLEFLEET BAKKA" and for the separate Bakka list, it is under "RESERVES"). So I simply kept this option around, as it was consistent throughout both lists.

For the "built-in" extra turret on the Cruisers/CLs, you will notice that in the Bakka listing in BFG:XR, the cost of these vessels is increased by +5 points already. (This was the only way to do this without having separate ship entries for each class). So in your example, a Lunar with 4 turrets (+1 naturally and +1 for +5 points) would cost 190 points. This is consistent with the setup for the BFG:R Bakka list. (Since the IN and Bakka lists in BFG:R conflict on this point).

The Dominator was dropped for similar reasons, as it does not appear in the separate BFG:R Bakka fleet list.

Hope that clears things up!

++++++++++++++++++++++++

EDIT: A change to the Rulebook has been made based on the question in this thread: http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=8629.0

On page 16, under FIRE ARCS, the last sentence of the 2nd paragraph has been changed to the following:
"If the line of fire is between two arcs, the attacking player gets to choose which arc to use for that phase. This applies to both shooting and target orientation."

This is done to clarify that the shooting player still only chooses one of the two arcs (now described in the singular) to count for shooting. It also clarifies that this decision lasts for the entire phase.

[Xca|iber]

Hey everybody, update time!

Based on community feedback, I am releasing an update for the Ork and Adeptus Mechanicus fleets. While making broad balance passes on the rules is perhaps a little bit outside the original scope of the project, I've already made more than a few changes and additions to some of the other fleets during the transcription process. So, it seems only fair that I listen to feedback from the community that made this project possible in the first place!

Here's a rundown on what's been updated:

Orks (credit goes to AJCHVY and Green_Squad_Leader for their takes on the rules):

• Zzapp Gunz are now lances that hit on a 5+, and only generate a blast marker on the firing ship if it rolls a 1 on a D6 after firing (rolling once per ship, not once per zzapp).
• Soopa Tellyporta is now +10 points. (I am not sure what I was thinking when I made it 30 points...)

Adeptus Mechanicus (credit goes to Yodhrin, Blacksails, horizon, and Thinking Stone for their input):

• EER is stronger and now useful even to non-crippled ships
• FDT no longer grants +2 Turrets
• GSTM has been replaced by Efficient Launch Bays, which doubles the ship's contribution to AC capacity and gives +10cm max speed to the ship's attack craft on the turn they launch
• AWR only functions during Lock On special orders
• Acquiring gifts is now done through the Knowledge Value system. When rolling Ld, the score on the D6 is your Knowledge (Kn) value. You then choose an upgrade for that ship whose Kn requirement is equal or less than the ship's Kn value. Battleships add +1 to their Kn (or that of a commander aboard).
• The Archmagos has a fixed Kn of 5, and the new (0-3) Magos has Ld8/Kn4
• Capital ships may take a Vault of Technology for +10 points, which increases their Kn (or that of a commander) by +1

That's it! Hope everyone enjoys the update; as always comments and constructive criticism are welcome!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Whew! Was hoping to have this done earlier in the week, but got sick (worse than anything I can remember in the last decade or so) and ended up spending a day in the ER over the weekend with the stomach flu

Not to worry though, I'm almost fully recovered! 

I'll be getting back to work on the Rogue Trader list soon!

[AJCHVY]

Loving the ork changes. Making the blast appear only on a 1 is within my limits of fluff vs balance. And i'll feel better when I take the soopa tellyporta now.

I still feel some of the lance options for orks are a little too pricey when you account for you replacing the heavy gunz for them but we can deal with that later.

looking forward to the missions

[Tves]

On the subject of Orks.

On Page 10, the Hammer Class there is the following in the gray text box "Equip Deff Kannon with looted torpedoes"  But in the profile and text box the weapon is refered to as Kustom Kannon.

[Xca|iber]

On the subject of Orks.

On Page 10, the Hammer Class there is the following in the gray text box "Equip Deff Kannon with looted torpedoes"  But in the profile and text box the weapon is refered to as Kustom Kannon.

Fixed! Thanks!

[blekinge]

A few modifications I would really like, but haven't playtested.

Chaos - Desolator Battleship
Add this rule from the Imperial Victory Class
Special Refits: A Victory class battleship may reduce the range of its port and starboard lances to 45cm in order
to increase their strength to 6 (from 4), for no change in cost.
Reason: The model is equipped with 6 lance turrets, and I really like that the number of lance turrets to match the number of shots. At least for Imperial/SpaceMarines/Chaos which have a broadly similar level of technology.
And as the refit is allowed on the Victory, it would probably not be game breaking on the Desolator.


Ork Battleships Hitpoints
I am very happy with what you have done for the Orks. Removing the randomness in the Blood Axe rules makes me actually want to play them again.
My ork ships are custom build, and the battle ship is almost twice the size of the cruisers. It has at least 25% more mass than the big chaos battleships. (The models are based on Legos). I should really post pictures of them soon. Anyway.
10 Hitpoints for the cruisers seems fair and works well. But only 12 hitpoints for the battleship does simply not match it's size. I would like an optional refit that gave the ship 14 hitpoints instead.
The rule does not need to be official, as all my games are against specific friendly opponents, but I would like to pay the extra points to not get an unfair advantage. So if you could advise about the price of such a refit? Perhaps 20 pts?

The Hammer Class cruisers
Since the term Grand Cruiser is not a proper ship size, I am unclear if they are intented to be Ork Grand Cruisers (more hitpoints and shields) or upgunned cruisers (battle/heavy cruisers).
If they represent ork grand cruisers, I would like a refit that allowed me to add +2 Hits. If they represent Battlecruisers, all is fine.

Assault Karriers
And then a little possible error
In the Green Tide list, this entry is found

In addition, any Ork capital ship with launch bays may be designated as an assault karrier, increasing the strength of all its launch bays by +1 at the cost of losing the ability to launch any attack craft besides assault boats.

This is somewhat unfair for the larger ships, which have just one dorsal launchbay (D3+1), compared to the 2 launchbays of the Terrorship.

[Xca|iber]

A few modifications I would really like, but haven't playtested.

Chaos - Desolator Battleship
Add this rule from the Imperial Victory Class
Special Refits: A Victory class battleship may reduce the range of its port and starboard lances to 45cm in order
to increase their strength to 6 (from 4), for no change in cost.
Reason: The model is equipped with 6 lance turrets, and I really like that the number of lance turrets to match the number of shots. At least for Imperial/SpaceMarines/Chaos which have a broadly similar level of technology.
And as the refit is allowed on the Victory, it would probably not be game breaking on the Desolator.

So here's the thing with these kinds of changes: I can sympathize, but I want to be cautious about making such alterations arbitrarily. To be sure, this specific modeling issue was one of the driving reasons why the Victory got its lance upgrade option in the first place (and the Desolator even came up in the discussion). So a point in favor of giving this upgrade to the Desolator. On the other hand, if this change is made, I feel like I will need to adjust the Acheron (and its Bakka equivalent, the Cardinal) to match, since they suffer from the exact same problem. If this happens, it'll probably just be this once for IN and Chaos, to honor the original model/rules interactions of classic BFG, and not something I plan on enacting throughout every codex (as that could easily become a balancing nightmare).

In related news, I discovered that I made an error with this specific upgrade for the Victory class. It should cost +10 points in addition to the range reduction penalty. I've fixed this in the BFG:XR Imperial Navy codex. If this refit comes to the Desolator, Acheron, and Cardinal, it will reflect this as well.

Ork Battleships Hitpoints
I am very happy with what you have done for the Orks. Removing the randomness in the Blood Axe rules makes me actually want to play them again.
My ork ships are custom build, and the battle ship is almost twice the size of the cruisers. It has at least 25% more mass than the big chaos battleships. (The models are based on Legos). I should really post pictures of them soon. Anyway.
10 Hitpoints for the cruisers seems fair and works well. But only 12 hitpoints for the battleship does simply not match it's size. I would like an optional refit that gave the ship 14 hitpoints instead.
The rule does not need to be official, as all my games are against specific friendly opponents, but I would like to pay the extra points to not get an unfair advantage. So if you could advise about the price of such a refit? Perhaps 20 pts?

This seems like a perfectly serviceable house-rule or even campaign-rule for you to use. 20pts sounds fair to me (and might even be a little overcosted if you go by the Smotherman formula as a rough estimate). As you can understand though, I don't think this is necessarily something to add to the official rules.

The Hammer Class cruisers
Since the term Grand Cruiser is not a proper ship size, I am unclear if they are intented to be Ork Grand Cruisers (more hitpoints and shields) or upgunned cruisers (battle/heavy cruisers).
If they represent ork grand cruisers, I would like a refit that allowed me to add +2 Hits. If they represent Battlecruisers, all is fine.

They are indeed Battlecruiser equivalents, hence the title "Battlekroozer." 

Assault Karriers
And then a little possible error
In the Green Tide list, this entry is found

In addition, any Ork capital ship with launch bays may be designated as an assault karrier, increasing the strength of all its launch bays by +1 at the cost of losing the ability to launch any attack craft besides assault boats.

This is somewhat unfair for the larger ships, which have just one dorsal launchbay (D3+1), compared to the 2 launchbays of the Terrorship.

Thanks for pointing this out. I had tried to re-word the rule (found originally in the 2010 Compendium Clanz list) to be simpler and easier to understand, but forgot about the Terrors technically having 2 sets of launch bays (not to mention that the wording I gave breaks some unwritten guidelines I have for how launch bays are considered in rules text). In any case, I've fixed it. The rule now states the following:

"In addition, any Ork capital ship with launch bays may be made an assault karrier for no extra cost. Such ships may place one extra marker (in total) when launching assault boats, but cannot launch any other kind of attack craft."

[Lord Borak]

First off, this stuff is fantastic. So thank you (and the BFG:R crew) very much for doing this. We've tried these rules out and they seem to be really well balanced whilst still keeping the same feel of the original BFG.

Anyway, the point of my reply. How are the rules going for the Rogue Traders?

Also, will you be including any of the ASC ships in the BFG:XR fleet lists? With potential for new ships types/classes?