Warmaster: Terrain Questions

[Stormwind]

Heya all!

I have some questions for you about terrain.

As far as I understand it in the rules - dense terrain is stuff like Ruins, Forests, Marshes.

Visibility is only 2cm and there is a -1 to command if any stand starts inside this terrain in a unit/brigade.

Can you see through a Marsh, though?  I've argued with Mark about this in my group because I feel that a Marsh is effectively full of trees and up and down terrain that should block line of sight.  He argues that it's just a difficult bog and you should be able to see through it or at least you should be able to see over it with artillery that is on a hill.

I'm tempted to suggest that we should have it as something that you can see through, but if you go through it it counts as half pace movement, just to differentiate it from forests/ruins.

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Also, rivers - for fordable rivers, do you have to stop in front of them - then use an entire order to cross them?

[Dave]

From Enemy in Sight:

All other units, friend or foe, block the line of sight as does terrain, other than low features such as low obstacles, rivers/streams, marshes etc

WM is pretty vague with regards to terrain. We did do the "order up to, order to cross" thing at the playtest weekend a few years back though.

Having played a few games to-date, I like Wrath of Kings terrain system. It's essential a bunch of keyword that you apply for effects (e.g. "Blocks Line of Sight", "Rough", etc.). If gives players a little more freedom to define terrain as they like. Can't agree, roll a die.

[Aquahog]

Yeah, it's really up to you. Want a marsh that blocks LoS? Agree before the game that it's covered in mist. Can't agree? Dice for it.

[Stormwind]

Well, I've made some little tree terrain markers.  If they're on the marsh you can't see through it, I figure. =-P

[mlkr]

It's of course more interesting with varied terrain so having a rules-difference between marsh and forest is a + in my book ^^

[Geep]

I'd normally assume a marsh doesn't have a significant number of trees (no LoS blocking).
This is one of those things that needs to be discussed pre-game, though it's easy to forget to do that.

[Dranask1]

Must admit I've always felt a marsh is a marsh not woods, difficult terrain, but LOS
I like the idea that with a marsh you can have difficult terrain but still LOS.
True some marshes are wooded, as you all say it is with agreement.

[forbes]

Must admit I've always felt a marsh is a marsh not woods, difficult terrain, but LOS

Me too.

While in the real world you can have a wooded marsh, from a gaming perspective it makes more sense to have a marsh be different to a wood rules wise.

[Geep]

I was thinking about weird marsh rules recently. Some ideas included:
1) -1 to any command that will cause a stand to enter a marsh (no one wants to go in there!)
2) +1 to any command that will move an entire unit out of a marsh (no one wants to stay in there!)
3) If an order is issued to a unit in a marsh and fails the unit takes D6 attacks worked out in the usual way (maybe the mud pulls men down, maybe there are swamp beasts... no one wants to check)
All 3 can go together for particularly weird marsh.

[empireaddict]

How about no bounce for cannon balls against targets in swamps/marshes?

[Dranask1]

@Geep Nice ideas, but with Lizzard armies you are taking away one of their advantages. I will certainly consider them for 'Chaos' marshes and maybe also chaos woodlands.

@Empireaddict, that seems well worth considering, gives marshes their own unique quality, however for a wooded marsh I'd suggest roll a d6  on a 4+ no bounce, if you roll less then the cannon ball has hit a tree and causes additional damage; treat as a bounce.