ASC 2.0 Chaos Development

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I don't like how the Enticer compares to the Heretic. It is comparably better and yet extremely similar for only 10 more points.

I want to change it. Probably to a Carrier Light Cruiser HOWEVER I can't find/forget where the source material for the Enticer is and want to ensure I am not obliterating its fluff by doing so.

Anyone have anything?

[zprinslo]

You could possibly reduce dorsal/ prow WB str to 4 and then perhaps give it an upgrade to ignore the long range right shift. So at that point it is only putting out total 8 shots on a dorsal/ port-star combined fire where as the heretic does 12. not sure about the points tho, i would use the enticer over the heretic if it was more of a cheap mid range support vessel. To be honest i think the Heretic and the Schismatic are a bit out of place when compared to what at least i perceive as the chaos trait of long range.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I like the idea. Ill play around with it some this week. The idea of a light carrier is still attractive to me as well though, seeing as there is nothing like that.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

This is the topic I meant to bring to the top page

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I KNOW I haven't put out an updated product in a bit. School (Post grad) and life sometimes catches up. BUT That does not mean this project is dead by any strectch of the Imagination. I WILL FINISH IT. I PROMISE. I have been blogging since 2008, playing since 1998-99 and I stick with my hobby.

View the main ASC 2.0 thread here
http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=7097.0

Here is what I have thus far

Blasphemer Class Fast Battleship- 300
Hits: 8
Speed: 30 cm
Turns: 45*
Sheilds: 2
Armour: 5+
Turrets:  4
Weapons
Port Weap Battery- R: 45cm  S: 10 Arc: L
Port Weap Battery- R: 60cm  S: 6 Arc: L
Stbd Weap Battery-  R: 45cm S: 10 Arc: R
Stbd Weap Battery- R: 60cm  S: 6 Arc: L
Dorsal Lance Battery- R: 60cm S: 4 Arc: L/F/R
Special Rules: 5D6 AAF. When the ships suffers a critical hit, roll an additional d6. On a 5+, an additional Fire critical damage result is applied to the original critical hit. Roll +1D6 for Plasma Drive Overload Catastrophic Damage results. Even though the Blasphemer has less than 3 shields and 10 hits, it MUST be mounted on a large (60mm) flying base, as it still has the presence of a Battleship, just none of the staying power.

Goliath Class Grand Cruiser- 250 (IMPERIAL NAVY/CHAOS)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 3
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port LB- Swiftdeaths: 30cm Doomfires: 20cm Dreadclaws: 30cm S: 3 Arc:-
Stbd LB- Swiftdeaths: 30cm Doomfires: 20cm Dreadclaws: 30cm S: 3 Arc:-
Port Lances- R: 60cm S:2 Arc: L
Stbd Lances- R: 60cm S: 2 Arc: R
Special Rules:  May take ABs for +5 pts.

Annihilator Class Grand Cruiser- 295 (IMPERIAL NAVY/CHAOS)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 3
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port LB- Swiftdeaths: 30cm Doomfires: 20cm Dreadclaws: 30cm S: 5 Arc:-
Stbd LB- Swiftdeaths: 30cm Doomfires: 20cm Dreadclaws: 30cm S: 5 Arc:-
Special Rules:

Vindictive Class Grand Cruiser- 330 (SPACE MARINE OR CHAOS FLEETS)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20 cm
Turns: 45*
Shields:  3
Armour: 6+
Turrets:  3
Weapons
Port LBs- Thunderhawks- Speed: 20cm S: 2 squadrons Arc: -
Stbd LBs- Thunderhawks- Speed: 20cm S: 2 squadrons Arc: -
Dorsal Bombardment Cannons- R: 30cm S: 6 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Launch Bays- Thunderhawks- Speed 20cm S: 2 squadrons Arc: -
Under Prow Plasma Destructor- R: 15cm S:10 Arc: F
Special Rules:  Chaos Space Marine Crew.
Plasma Destructor: Always hit on a 5+. Always inflicts critical hits on a 5+.

Charybdis Class Grand Cruiser- 295 (Use Grim Dark Bits Heresy Era BB. Based off the Nicor in IA vol 10)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20 cm
Turns: 45*
Shields:  3
Armour: 6+
Turrets:  3
Weapons
Port Weap Batteries- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd Weap Batteries- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: R
Prow Bombardment Cannons- R: 30cm S: 6 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Launch Bays- Swiftdeaths: 30cm Doomfires: 20cm Dreadclaws: 30cm S: 4 Arc:-
Under Prow Plasma Destructor- R: 15cm S:10 Arc: F
Special Rules:  You may take a CSM crew for +35 points.
Plasma Destructor: Always hit on a 5+. Always inflicts critical hits on a 5+.

Kharnath Class Grand Cruiser- 320
Hits: 10
Speed: 25 cm
Turns: 45*
Shields:  3
Armour: 5+
Turrets:  3
Weapons
Prow Boarding Torpedoes- Speed: 35cm S: 6 Arc: F
Port Launch Bays- Dreadclaws: 35cm S: 5 Arc:  -
Stbd Launch Bays- Dreadclaws: 35cm S: 5 Arc:  -
Prow Talons- R: 15 S: 2 Arc: F
Special Rules:  5d6 AAF
Blood for the Blood God:  MoK and CSM crew. May only be taken in Bezerker fleets or fleets where at least ½ of the ships (including Kharnath GC) have the MoK. May not be included in fleets where any ship has the MoT.
Talons of Khorne: Prow mounted Talons are fired like WB with a Left Col Shift. They ignore shields. If you successfully hit a vessel, instead of inflicting damage all boarding actions conducted by AC from the Kharnath receive a +1 bonus.
Boosted Craft- AC from the Kharnath are boosted from the Kharnath, adding +5 to speed, already included above.

Hellfire Class Heavy Cruiser (CH)-190
Hits: 8
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: R
Port Lance Battery- R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: L
Stbd Lance Battery - R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: R
Prow WB- R: 30cm S: 6 Arc: L/F/R
Dorsal Lance Battery- R: 60 S: 1 Arc: L/F/R
Special Rules: When AAF or Burn Retros, the ship may not fire its lance batteries.


Hellbringer Class Planetary Assault Ship (CH)

Emasculator Class CA (CH)- 180
Hits: 8
Speed: 25cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 6 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 6 Arc: R
Port Lance Battery- R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: L
Stbd Lance Battery - R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: R
Prow WB- R: 30cm S: 6 Arc: L/F/R

Pagan Class System Control Cruiser CL (CH)
Pestilaan Class CL (CH)
Chaos SM SC (CH)
Apostate Class Heavy Raider (CH)

Enticer Class Light Cruiser- 145
Hits: 6
Speed: 25cm
Turns: 90*
Shields: 1
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 4 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 4 Arc: R
Prow WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: L/F/R
Notes: MoS. 5d6 AAF. May only be used in Pleasure Fleets of Slaneesh or fleets where over ½ of the vessels have the MoS. May not be taken in fleets where a vessel has the MoN. These restrictions are lifted in fleet led by Abaddon.

Pestilaan Class Light Cruiser-
Hits: 7
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Port Hives of Nurgle- R: 30cm S:6 Arc: L
Stbd Hives of Nurgle- R: 30cm S:6 Arc: R
Prow Torpedoes- R: 30cm S: 4 Arc: F
Notes: MoN (included in profile). Hives o Nurgle function exactly like Terminus Est. May only be taken in Plague Fleets of Nurgle or fleets where over ½ of the vessels have the MoN. May not be taken in fleets where a vessel has the MoT. These restrictions are lifted for fleets led by Abaddon.

[timdp]

Re the Havoc Frigate/Praetor Frigate/Onager/Chaos Havoc Raider/Chaos Infidel Raider/Meritech Shrike Raider ships in ASC and Chaos lists, I'm just trying to come up some coherent deep background as a basis for the fluff for this series of ships. It does not ALL have to fit into the fluff descriptions

We have two ships built pre-Heresy, one first built during the heresy and three supposedly first built after the Heresy, all based on the same hull.

Praetor Class Frigate: Pre-Heresy.  How did the Praetor become a frigate? Havoc Class Frigate description in 2010 calls the Praetor a destroyer while the Havoc is a frigate.

2010 Havoc Class Frigate:  Pre-Heresy.

Onager: Heresy era ship. Would not Heresy era Onagers be built out of already existing Havoc frigates instead of building a "new escort"?

It seems likely that the plans for this pre-Heresy ship have been floating around the galaxy, not to mention ex-Heresy ships fleeing to the Eye of Terror and still existing as well as being replicated, all leading eventually to:

Chaos Havoc Class Raider: M36
Chaos Infidel Class Raider: M40
Meritech Raider: M41


Suggested hull development flowcharts:

Preator Class Destroyer  > Chaos Havoc Class Raider > Infidel  (All are torpedo equipped ships)
Design aspects incorporated into: Cobra

2010 Havoc Class Frigate > Meritech Raider (With additional non-Imperial technologies added.) (Weapons batteries only)
Design aspects incorporated into: Sword

Having two different ship classes named Havoc is a bit confusing. Not sure how Onager would fit in. Could be an offshoot of both designs.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

The novel Shadowpoint, which is the best source/cannon on BFG IMO, has the Praetor as a frigate.

The Onager was an ad-hoc stop gap design, essentially anything that had a NC dropped into it of escort tonnage became an "Onager"

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

As well, BFG:R already reconciled the difference between the Havoc Frigate/Raider. It made them the same class. Just chaos utilizes theirs as a raiding vessel instead of a line/escort frigate. Same ship, different factions, different roles.

It is quite possible a Praetor "destroyer" did exist at some point, but I am going to stick with Shadowpoint rather than the 2010, seeing as virtually everything BFG put out since like '07 has been a slow, poorly researched, march of retcons and "THIS IS COOL, DAMN THE IMPLICATIONS" by Black Library/FW

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

And last point, if the Preator was a destroyer, it would really beg the question of why Chaos does not have some form of Torpedo destroyer. I'd like to think that the Cobra and Viper are a pure evolution on the Imperial Side only, where chaos never had nor developed a torpedo destroyer.

[Chios]

Hi!
Just something I noticed:
In your list, the Karnath Class Grand Cruiser is excluded from fleets where there is a ship with the Mark of Tzeentch, while the Enticer Class Light Cruiser is prohibited in fleets with a Mark of Nurgle.

Is this a deliberate act of balancing or motivated by the fluff of the particular ships? The antagonist pairings for the named battle barges are Khorne-Slaanesh / Tzeentch-Nurgle in the BFG:R document.

Keep up the good work, I'm really looking forward to the Apostate Heavy Raider!

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Motivated by fluff. Abaddon removes these restrictions.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

First chaos (only) vessel done after a 3 month break!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zxtz8dsplzqa2qk/ASC%202.0%20draft.pdf?dl=0

Trying to figure out if I need to add any more variants to Chaos to even out with IN...

[Fr05ty]

Mind if I suggest a new ship to add? The Dethroner class Battleship
I have provided the PDF from that ship as it was meant to be part of Battleship Nemesis (a book from cypra.net). Might be that we need to ask permission from whoever made it though?

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Mind if I suggest a new ship to add? The Dethroner class Battleship
I have provided the PDF from that ship as it was meant to be part of Battleship Nemesis (a book from cypra.net). Might be that we need to ask permission from whoever made it though?

Definitely adding that! Thanks

[Fr05ty]

Got the revised version that's compatible with BFG:R here. It's quite underpowered otherwise.

Dethroner class Battleship - 405 points



The Dethroner class Battleship was built in a small numbers during the later years of the 36th Millenium, in the Reeash Forgeworld repair dockyard (Segmentus Tempestus) as a cheap, field conversion of the Conquest Battleship. According to Adeptus Mechanicus archives, at least four vessels were rebuilt to this configuration, but nowadays no Dethroner serves in the Imperial Navy.
The Heart of the Galaxy was lost during the battle at Alveo II in the middle of the 37th Millenium, when it was overwhelmed by Ork Kroozers. After a long fight of nearly 18 hours, the ship exploded but managed to destroy at least 3 capital ships and a couple of escorts before it went.
The Bright Star exploded in 989.M37, when its plasma drive was overloaded in the Uviro III dockyards, as a result of sabotage. The explosion killed all its crew and heavily damaged a few other ships and the docks themselves.
In the beginning of the 38th Millenium, after the battle of Artemida III, the heavily damaged Light of the Emperor was reverted back to a Conquest class, which fits standard Imperial Navy doctrine much better.
The last Dethoner class battleship - the Saltatio Fidusum - was lost in the Perseus Nebula, when it was captured by two Chaos battleships. She was renamed the Saltatio Damnatibus by its new captain, and disappeared for more than one hundred years. In the Second and Third century of the 38th Millenium she saw much combat, and plagued Imperial systems almost throughout the Imperium, wandering from sector to sector, and left only death and destruction behind her, avoiding confrontation with the Imperial Navy. She was finally stopped in an ambush at the Usmeutus passage, when she was crippled and barely menage to escape intact.
There is an Adeptus Mechanicus legend about three other Dethroner battleships, but there is no confirmation of this. All information about them was lost during a Chaos raid in 198.M40, when the Forgeworld archives were hit by a torpedo.

Type/Hits	Speed	Turns	Shields	Armour	Turrets
Battleship/12	20cm	45	4	5+	5

Armament	Rng/Spd	Firepower/Str	Arc
Prow Torpedoes	30cm	6	Front
Prow weapon battery	60cm	6	Left/Front/Right
Dorsal weapon battery	60cm	8	Left/Front/Right
Port launch bays	As attack craft	4	-
Port lance battery	45cm	3	Left
Starboard launch bays	As attack craft	4	-
Starboard lance battery	45cm	3	Right

The Dethroner class Battleship carries Swiftdeath fighters (speed: 30cm), Doomfire bombers (speed: 20cm) and Dreadclaw assault boats (speed: 30cm).
The Dethroner as with all Chaos ships, carries both standard and boarding torpedoes.

Special rules:
The Dethroner class battleship cannot be given Come to New Heading orders. As with all Reeash pattern battleships, the Dethroner has a traditional symmetrically built engine compartment. Unfortunately this reduces the ship's performance so the Dethroner rolls only 2D6 on All Ahead Full! special orders.

Options:
During the War in the Purity sub-sector in the 38th Millenium, the engines of the Statio Damnatibus were refitted and the mass of the ship was reduced. The ship gains +5cm of speed, but reduces its launch bay capacity from 4 to 3 at no extra cost.