dwarf tactics

[cjbennett22]

Since getting back into this game in the fall I had 2000+ points of chaos and about 1100 points of dwarfs from 2001 when I was actually playing this game.  I have begun collecting dwarves to get them to 2000+ points so I could play some actual games.  But because of their prices I didn't want to collect an army that sucked and knew their had to be a way to win consistently with the dwarves.  I tried several formations and could not figure out how to withstand a cavalry assault.  But finally, I heard of a rule that with a single order you could attack from a column brigade described below by moving your front line out of the way and attacking with your columns.

I began doing the math of attacks and armor and figuring out that the math is finally in the dwarves favor with this brigade formation.  1 line of thunderers 3 stands across and 3 columns of warriors behind that in support.  I had the chaos knights attack again and again and with the proper support from the rangers on the flank and the gyrocopters behind the enemy an attack can be halted and a counter attack can wipe out the opposing cavalry.  I played 2 full games (by myself so who knows if I was influencing one side or the other) but with a lot of terrain the dwarves won hands down!!! with no terrain, the chaos knights still withered away without able to knock to much of the dwarves out of the game.

So with that brigade in mind I have started to collect my new dwarf units and have finally received the last warrior in the mail this weekend.

Final list:
General, runesmith, hero
2 thunderers, 6 warriors
2 cannon, 2 flame cannon
2 gyrocopters
3 rangers

combining the rule for that one order of movement and charging and the tactics learned from the warmaster magazine tips and tricks with the "Dwarf Commando" article.

Anyone still playing as dwarves know any other way to actually win consistently?  My next concern is if the 9 breakpoint will be enough to withstand any elf and undead army breakpoints.

[Geep]

I've never played with or against Dwarfs, but I know there's a good article- I think the title is 'The Evolution of a Dwarf Commando'- in one of the Warmaster Magazines.
I'll try and find you some more details later.

[Lex]

Bring the fight to the enemy. Interdict one area of the board with the cannons and then steamroller a flank.

Charging from column, with the thunderers moved to a side to deplace supporting troops allows you to play offensive too

[cjbennett22]

with the 2 games I played the chaos army couldn't sit anywhere because of the cannons.  the flame cannons in line with the cannons make them dicey to attack with anything, especially for my chaos harpies that can't even have a hero join them in combat (I did try to attack like that with the harpies and they lost).

fighting on the map with the terrain first, the chaos army barely lost only by breakpoint.  The second play battle I did without any terrain what so ever and the cannon's just ripped the cavalry brigade apart making it nearly impossible to smoothly move across the field and then ended up just attacking as soon as it could not very co-ordinated at all,  harpies couldn't move around to the rear and no magic could help out during the fight either.

then the counter strike from the dwarves just wiped the rest of it off the board and lastly clean up the rest with the cannon as the chaos infantry never even got close to attacking (cavalry moved to fast across). 

That was the "balanced" chaos army that I have had since 2001 I believe, so I swapped out some heavy hitters to beef up the numbers with paper cavalry for the third game (and increased the breakpoint by 2).  They won that with "some" terrain but only by a single unit on the break point.  That game could have gone either way. 

Regardless I am happy with the dwarves and I am now finishing up with painting and re-basing them. I was hoping to get some inspiring stories from others who win with them because I hear bad things  ha!

[Aquahog]

Never tried them but finished my eighth warrior unit yesterday. *phew* Soon there.

[Dave]

Haranin plays with something like this: http://wm-selector.appspot.com/army_selector.html?list=dwarf&label=&print=&0=13&4=2&7=1&7-SwF=1&9=2&9-0=1

While not overly fun to play against (one trick pony) it's a very tough dwarf army. General tactics usually involve occupying defended terrain and letting the enemy bounce off of supported Warrior formations before charging in themselves. The Runesmiths are just there to be annoying, the General issues the commands. Cannons are used to break up formations/cause command penalties. Cav is dealt with by "sandwiching" it between two Warriors.

I'll also note that we play terrain heavy here:



This favors high armor/hit infantry armies while putting cav at a disadvantage. Your mileage may vary if you're playing on something closer to this:



My elves always get nervous when they head out to Adepticon in Chicago. It's the lack of trees I think.

[cjbennett22]

Man o'War was the game that I saw first that I liked for a real random terrain.  Section off the table into smaller squares and then roll a dice for 1-3 pieces of terrain in each square.  Unless you want to play a scenario or specific map of course.  I have since seen that method a lot

I like playing with terrain but not while practicing strategies.  I don't like the idea that dwarves depend on getting defended position to win 

[Stormwind]

I have made it my mission to make sure the battlefields here look more like the former than the latter, ha ha.

[Lex]

Man o'War was the game that I saw first that I liked for a real random terrain.  Section off the table into smaller squares and then roll a dice for 1-3 pieces of terrain in each square.  Unless you want to play a scenario or specific map of course.  I have since seen that method a lot

I like playing with terrain but not while practicing strategies.  I don't like the idea that dwarves depend on getting defended position to win 

Use the "ok, there is not scenery on it, but that does not mean it is open terrain" (house)rule
That way only roads and the footprint on either side (in effect the "road" being 3 times as wide as represented and specific indicated "flat area features" are considered "in the open"

and/or

support before combat

and/or

any terrainmods count in the most favourable way if at least one stand is in position. But for BOTH units involved in combat (which also cleans up discussions on only able to apply hits to akward stands.
(in simple terms - defender gets most fav defense bonus based on best placed stand BUT attacker also gets most fav attack bonus based on least good placement of defender)

All 3 together kill the CAV rules situation

[jchaos79]

any terrainmods count in the most favourable way if at least one stand is in position. But for BOTH units involved in combat (which also cleans up discussions on only able to apply hits to akward stands.
(in simple terms - defender gets most fav defense bonus based on best placed stand BUT attacker also gets most fav attack bonus based on least good placement of defender)

Nice

[Hammerskelp]

Hi,
some accumulated thoughts based on my own highly subjective experience climbing the dwarf learning curve.
- - - - -
I too was told Dwarfs worked best finding a defended position and weathering the storm.
I found this advice to be complete rubbish. 13 defeats in a row taught me that.
Dwarf players are often stubborn too.
If you give up the initiative you get flanked and die, every time. (I hesitated before writing 'every'...but on careful reflection I'll stick with it.)
Thanks to their 10 command general, the Dwarfs are 'foot-cavalry'. Get in there.
- - - - -
I like mixed brigades: 1Ranger/1 TrollSlayer/2Warriors. Usually all in columns of 3.
With the penultimate order before contact, bring your columns up to 19cm from target.
Final pep talk before the order to go in.

Pass = you hit with 3 columns. 19 cm from target means...oh dear....stands after the first don't have enough movement to get into front contact and so have to form up behind, making a  3 deep column.
Incoming hits are now spread across your 3 units. You are unlikely to lose stands, even if it starts to go bad.
If you put rangers on one end of the 3 fighting units and win the first round you can follow up mounted troops and wrap round the end of a cavline. One stand straight forward, one at the side and one across the rear.
The 4th unit is your insurance. It either moves round the flank. (You never know, you might make _another_ order!)  Or... it covers the brigade. (Even if that just means its the counter attack later, if you lose.)

Fail = you are far enough away that even SilverHelms need two orders to hit you in the flank, next turn. Having a flank resting on terrain is nice. (You never know, the enemy might not move at all and then you can charge in using initiative next turn.)
- - - - -
I tend to put two batteries with a flame Cannon in the middle. One unit of warriors either side. Put the warriors in an 'L' formation, Two stands in front, one behind, to maximise support. Now they are in irregular formation and only move 10cm....The same as the artillery.
I see Dwarf Cannons as effectively making big chunks of the table impassible for cavalry.
Using your adjacent units to 'steer' LoS so you can shoot at targets other than closest is 'legal' but it wont win you any friends.
Invest in a solid straight edge ruler. Fold out carpenter's are ideal.  Players with knights can't help but suffer from wobbly-tape-measure-syndrome when it comes to the path of artillery shots and its penetration. A nice straight edge takes away any ambiguity.

Artillery operate in two phases. The first phase often involves your opponent throwing a bag of feathers up in the air in front of your batteries. (They may have been Eagles or some other flying creatures. There's not usually enough left for a positive identification.) This phase also involves the shaping-of the-battlespace by refusing big chunks of the table at range using your cannon . Pity help a unit of silver helms trying to cross the front of two batteries.  Its not unusual to hit one unit with 16 canon dice.

Second phase is when your mixed brigades have advanced to the point that  its obvious where the fight is going to be. Its now that the command 10 general can rush a flying column forward made up from the two warrior units babysitting the artillery and the flame cannon.  By now there is usually either a fire for them to put out or an advantage to press. If there's a fire, their mission is to move up into counter-attack position. (This is where things have gone badly and one of your mixed brigades is likely to disintegrate. You can often get the flying column up into initiative charge distance of the erstwhile victors as they overextend.) By now you should definitely be coming within 30cm of targets-of-opportunity for the Flame Cannon. 
 
I never really took to my thunderers.  I prefer the visceral thrill of Troll Slayers.
Hopefully my coffee break ramblings are of interest to any Dwarf newbies.
My 2c.

Happy Hunting
--Hammerskelp

[cjbennett22]

that is definitely a coffee break rambling and a half!  very appreciated though, just what I wanted to be reading during my lunch break, thank you. 
I have been trying to figure out how the dang dwarf army can be on the offensive, the cannons take away any defensive position the other army may take up so that forces them to be offensive and me to be defensive but it doesn't guarantee that their attack is going to be messy or un co-ordinated.  I have purposely put on a perfect attack with 2 chaos knights hitting the front, a chariot hitting a flank and the harpies camping out behind.  The dwarf block got annihilated but while still causing casualties and they still lasted 4 rounds i think, so if I could prevent that from ever happening then I think I could win the war of attrition as the flank screening rangers will be able to flank the attacking survivors.

As for offense, the attack by the 3 columns would only be worth it if the rangers could flank and maybe finish them off.  otherwise my warriors will need to risk getting bounced back and then counter attacked but this time the warriors will not be in a nice neat block to support each other and probably get mowed down within a few rounds of combat.  in a perfectly co-ordinated attack by the dwarves, there will be a broken up brigade in front of them because of thunderer and gyrocopter fire, and with the 3 ranger stands hitting the flank of 1 cavalry stand and a gyrocopter camping out behind it should go smoothly and then should be able to "fall back" into a nice neat group again, almost.  Only 1 warrior unit should be needed to go forward to add some attack hits, staying in the column and the 1 front stand of warriors would be enough to engage a whole cavalry unit and only 1 cavalry unit so the rest can be peppered with hot lead.  With any luck the first one will be killed by falling back through the gyrocopter and I can repeat against the next unit of cavalry in the line. 

I don't know, I honestly haven't tried the offensive thing yet.  HA!

[Aquahog]

Two batteries of cannon, a flame cannon and two warriors. Isn't that two brigades?

[Hammerskelp]

Two batteries of cannon, a flame cannon and two warriors. Isn't that two brigades?

Aquahog..
The flame cannon and two warriors move off as a brigade of 3 once the first 'budgie' phase is over.
Having the GunLine+Escorts as a brigade of 4 would be convenient for maneuver, you're right. However, dropping one of the warriors weakens the formation too much.
If you do have to move the whole line of 5, its usually early on. The enemy is quite far away and its usually a wheel. The Warriors at the 'safe' end can catchup.  Relatively low risk for a lot more security

I've often found that having 2 warriors and the flame-cannon arriving late-to-the-party provides more flexibility when it comes to where they can be most effective.

Maybe its just me but if the Flame-Cannon is further forward I tend to get it committed too easily.
Again...my personal 2c.
regards
--Hammerskelp

[cjbennett22]

Finally got in a couple of 2,000 point games just by myself just to watch the scenarios happen in real life.  the "Dwarven Hammer" that I am calling it, the row of thunderers in front of 3 dwarven warrior columns, seems to work really really well.

You need to really co-ordinate a massive attack to take out the brigade or any counter strikes will wipe you out.  I used my chaos knights to just punch through and skip to the rear to flank attack the next turn but then just turn the cannon brigade around and blast them to bits!!

Attacked the cannon brigade with the knights, took so many hits and casualties before getting to the line they just bounced off only to still get blasted to bits the next turn.

You need to place a flyer at the rear, and hit the front and flank at the same time to have a chance.

Not to mention the offensive capabilities of this formation.  With one order, move the thunderers out of the way and run forward with the 3 warrior columns, usually one can hit the flank.  The thunderers missile attacks with the armor piercing should always score at least 1 hit and drive any supporting troops back.  Had this work out once to perfection and had to smile.  I have finally figured out the dwarves.....not that this would work against all armies but with a little tweaks here and there like swaping out thunderers for troll slayers for their drive back rule against maybe empire or another dwarf even.

Hammerskelp, would you say that your dwarves win 50 percent of the time, or there about all things considered?