BFG:R - Rogue Trader

[Cyk0]

Yea you might be right about the speed upgrade becoming mandatory... Which is a bit weird since the net result would be that it would be like the rest anyway but with higher AAF.

One thing that could be made to make the grand cruiser a bit special is to allow it one free picked upgrade even from the exotic table (though I might just be making things overly complicated) but that would at-least allow the player to pick up 3 shields at the expense of  getting something else interesting.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I kind of feel that the Forge ship is twisting a little away from its intended purpose. I could see it having an upgrade or two as options and different weapons layouts are fine but this should stay largely something that should not be a primary choice. These are fine for a support ship but the real stars should be the cruisers and the trade ships (imo). Really the only reason for these iirc was as an option for a large ship without actually giving them a mainstream warship.

[Cyk0]

True we don't want the forgeship to be the star of the show.

I'm quite sure the proposed one wont be especially with 2 shields. And neither of the two weapon load outs are mind blowing either so that should be okay as well.

An ability to get say 5 upgrades from the tables, make it harder to judge performance, but then again the cruisers would have roughly the same ability (perhaps with one pick less) and I feel that removal of the ability to upgrade it would make people steer away from it totally.

That being said maybe allowing it to take pick one exotic upgrade is to good and makes it to much of a "star" maybe its better to give it back its 3rd shield instead and limit it to only 3 upgrades. The intention would be to make it a bit boring , but people might still pick it to get some long range gun support.

[afterimagedan]

Veteran Captains should be 30pts though, correct?

[horizon]

Because of other lists?
For the RT list I say 25 max, but 15 is fine given them being rogue traders.

[afterimagedan]

Ok, so that's a boost to the RT list, what's the downside to counterbalance it?

[horizon]

Low on launch bays.
Transports with lower leadership.

[afterimagedan]

Gotcha. Good point.

[afterimagedan]

Here's how I think Rogue Traders should look:
-Based on the FFG Rogue Trader RPG, I think Rogue Traders should have relatively stripped down vessels to begin with and then have small upgrades. Starting out in RT, you generally have a pretty stock ship and then the upgrades are not excessive.
-I don't think the upgrades should take the ships to the range of AdMech ships. The ships should not be like a full IN cruiser stock and be able to upgrade past it like AdMech cruisers do.
-The upgrade amount from WR17 seems a little out of hand. I think we should reign in it much like the Tyranid list did.  It seems to be out of control in the WR17 list to have a bunch of upgrades you can take for specific vessels and also have a huge global upgrade list that vessels can take from also.
-I think the exotic upgrades should be significantly limited.
-I would be in favor of the new AdMech style picking method and making that work out for the RT list. The random upgrades would represent the armament that came with ships when the RT acquired them. The picked results would represent the upgrades the RT picked himself. This would give some randomness and some choice, much like what I think would be realistic for a RT fleet.

SO, simpler upgrades like Admech, the vessel the RT rides on gets an exotic upgrade (like Admech sort of, the RT will have the upgrade cost built in), roll a 6 for Ld, you can pick an upgrade to add to the pool (like Admech), and veteran captains can purchase an exotic upgrade for their ship. This has some randomness, limited exotic upgrades, and a more limited upgrade amount as opposed to the WR17 style.

Question: would the Galleon and Merchantman have the -1ld and be considered Transports?

I know this is a pretty big request, but something is not right with the new list, IMO. Maybe it feels a little too much like the Admech debate of randomness vs ability to choose which upgrades go where and still retaining some randomness.

[horizon]

Hey Dan,

First point: that is difficult to translate into a BFG list, because the basic ship a Rogue Trader would start with is a Sword class escorts...

The BFG list is more a translation of a full fledged Trader, or a Trader leading an exploration fleet.

The three lists in Warp Rift 17 captured that greatly, however Andrew and I decided to make it somewhat easier to approach with one list.

Point two, I disagree, in Rogue Trader they can add/capture standard IN/Chaos cruisers with their normal values. So downgrading them is off.

Point three I like the WR17 upgrade list, and thus like the even better list Andrew and I made this time around (Cyko made a good idea, which needs to be translated into the list.

Point four : they are limited.

Point five: No, not randoming weapons you initially pay for, that takes away a tactical element to list building and will put a captain from the start on in a poorer position.

Galleon & Merchantmen are not ticked as transports, unless people think they should be.

Yes it is a big request and I disagree with a lot of your ideas (sorry), your conception is more of a starting trader, and that just does not flow well into a BFG list (or pick WR17 completely ).

With the Cyko addition the randomness & ability to choose is quite good for the RT list I think.

[afterimagedan]

Hmm, consider me convinced by most of what you said. What about exotic upgrades? Shouldn't those be extremely limited?

[horizon]

Dunno, as it was intended ships could get a maximum of 2 exotic upgrades. Is that a lot? Dunno. It is what makes the ship unique.

[afterimagedan]

Ok, if I really narrowed down my opinion it would be this:
-make the exotic upgrades much more rare. Maybe each RT gets one roll on the exotic chart. Let's be honest, RTs would most likely put the exotic technology on their own ship.
-The randomness just seems too weird. The RT can move parts around. I think rolling for upgrades, those upgrades make a pool, and then placing them like Admech would keep randomness yet allow for some choice by the RT.
-reduce the amount of upgrades each ship can have. Maybe 1 per escort, 2 per capital ships. Exotic upgrades, being limited, go where the RT or Veteran Captain goes. Mayve the RTs and VCs can pay points for a roll on the exotic list. Instead of it being an upgrade on a ship, it becomes an upgrade for the RT or VC.

What about this?

[AndrewChristlieb]

I wouldn't think the exotic upgrades would be all that uncommon for some traders, especially if they have a fleet of ships like you see in BFG they're probably going to have been to the kinds of places where these upgrades can be more easily found. I guess it would depend on the background of the fleet.

[afterimagedan]

In the RT RPG, xenotech components are given a "near unique" acquisition difficulty, meaning its really, really, hard to acquire.