[BFG] - Designing new ship types - 3d printing madness

[Malika]

Quick question to the community. Vanguard Miniatures are possibly commissioning me to redesign their ordnance models, but they want to go a bit smaller than what they've had before, but at the same time have some sort of 'internal consistency' between the different ordnance models. I was thinking of using the original BFG Thunderhawk model as a basis for the scale.

Can anybody here provide me the size/dimensions of that model?

Thanks in advance!

[osjclatchford]

I've recently been researching this. 
so far the info I got is sketchy but seems to me that the fw thunderhawks (the only official gw releases I mean) were 10mm length and 10mm wingspan (give or take 0.2 mill.)

grimdarkbits are 8mm/8mm and that makes more sense for a th compared to the imperial metal fighters.

hope this helps...

[Malika]

Cheers mate. I'm currently running two parallel experiments regarding ordnance models. Vanguard has commissioned me to redo them, but with the condition that there's a consistency in scale. So all the ordnance models need to be in the same scale.

Experiment 1:
With the Thunderhawk being 10mm long it would be a scale of more or less 1/1750.


Experiment 2:
Another experiment is that the models are all fixed to their round bases, the scale here is 1/5000.


Currently the stuff for Experiment 2 is undergoing test prints. But yeah, lets see how this will all develop.

[horizon]

I have a bunch of the old GW assault boats. Tiny shizzles.

As for basing those things: on the marker images there are 5 fighters, 4 assault boats, 3 bombers. And iirc a Tau Manta is just 1. So they did some sizing with that on the tabletop.

I like the two figher per base you are creating. Would it be possible to do 5 (or 3) fighters per base, 4 (or2) assault boats and 3 (or 1) bomber?

The designs are nice! They look a bit like the vipers from battlestar galactica (if you remove the extended wing bits).

[Malika]

Note that the circles posted here have a diameter of 6mm. Vanguard Miniatures are doing a test print to see how they'll end up looking. I'm not sure if it's gonna be workable. Hopefully I'll be able to tell you more in the coming days/weeks.

[timdp]

Just measured and my FW Thunderhawks are 10.75mm long by just under 12 mm wide.

I have no problem with using the Vanguard models for Stormbirds.

Have been looking for pics comparing the 40k scale Thunderhawk to other 40k scale flyers, but have not found much yet. Need to chase down "real world" dimensions for a Marauder bomber. With that we could compare to the 40k scale Stormbird and Thunderhawk models to get some sort of a size comparison. Will be working more on this today.

BTW, no flat counters please!

Thunderhawk and "Stormbirds"




Stormbird, Thunderthawk and Storm Eagle(?)

[osjclatchford]

Just measured and my FW Thunderhawks are 10.75mm long by just under 12 mm wide.

hmm, this is good info for me.
As I did not own any of these or know anyone who did I'd asked the folks at forgeworld directly.
so I guess they're full of shit... 

[timdp]

Just measured and my FW Thunderhawks are 10.75mm long by just under 12 mm wide.

hmm, this is good info for me.
As I did not own any of these or know anyone who did I'd asked the folks at forgeworld directly.
so I guess they're full of shit... 

Never, ever trust anyone else's measurements for sizes of 40K universe things (or pretty much anything else). 95% of people have no clue as to the actual sizes of things and will generally be happy to give you wildly bad info.

[timdp]

According to the Warhammer 40K wiki a Thunderhawk is 26.6 x 26.6 meters and the Marauder bomber is 19.2 meters long and 24.6 meters wide. The FW model of the Solar Stormbird "measures over half a meter from nose to tail" lets call it 20"

Using the Stormbird/Thunderhawk/Eagle pic in the previous post and scaling the Stormbird to 20", we get a length of 17 7/8" for the Thunderhawk. Going from the published length of 26.6 meters at 1/60th scale (1" = 5'-0") we get 17.45 inches: 26.6 x 39.37 = 1047 divided by 60 = 17.45" which is close enough to 17 7/8" for GW work.

"Starhawk bombers are larger, slower voidcraft than the Marauder bomber". Have not found a length for the Starhawks yet, although I seem to remember something about them being 100 meters long. They need to be long enough to carry a starship torpedo in the case of torpedo bombers. Seems like the odds are pretty good that the bombers are LARGER than Thunderhawks...

I'm finding two length ranges for Fury Interceptors; 30-70 meters and 60- 70 meters, both of which are larger to FAR larger than Thunderhawks. Given that bombers are likely considerably larger than Furies, it seems that the Thunderhawk is the SMALLEST of the three craft...

Oops, forgot to add the pic of all the Imperial attack craft together:

[osjclatchford]

Never, ever trust anyone else's measurements for sizes of 40K universe things (or pretty much anything else). 95% of people have no clue as to the actual sizes of things and will generally be happy to give you wildly bad info.

well yes, thats kinda the point I'm making. but I was talking to the actual designers. not just anyone and I expected them to know. had I known you had some to hand I'd've come to you first.

as for the TRUE scale of things. back in 2001 tim adcock was quoted to say that the fury interceptors are; "...more the size of jumbo jets..."

bfg was never supposed to have direct scale references to the 40k universe in it. the scale was always considered slightly mysterious. its only when fw got involved that they decided to make fighta-bombas and thunderhawks and must have had it in their heads that fury's and swiftdeaths were supposed to be one-man snub-fighters. which is (technically)wrong, if you base the original bfg release info as true canon.

furys are clearly very large vessels with multiple lascannon arrays and a modeststly sized crew. (just look in your bfg rulebooks, its all there)

however bfg is (and has always been) a mismatch of scales from the off. the planets and celestial phenomena are not to scale with the ships but to the ships stands. thats why all the measurements come from the stand. the tip of the stand is where the ship actually would be, the circle of the base is meant to  represent the aura of the ship's voidshields. so thats where the blast markers go...

I think with fighter/bombers its a case of as long as the ordnance matches the scale of each-other per faction, its fine. so players using thunderhawks are usually only using thunderhawks as astartes vessels are (originally) the only ones capable of launching them. and exclusively them.

however that goes up the wall straight away as chaos vessels can also use them, potentially having swiftdeaths and doomfires in the same fleet as traitor thunderhawks... its a visual mess by the time you get to armarda's release anyway and a lot of the lore and "scale" is simply overlooked for what is cool...

once fw got into the mix it just went even crazier.

so to summerise;
gw originally said that a th would be so small you'd not see it on the tabletop.
fw decided that a th was bigger than a fury (or that furies are one man fighters) and modeled them accordingly

so the final answer to all this?

well the eagle dropship is staying so, I'd say, continue to use the eagle dropship as the thunderhawk size and model your bombers to be just a bit smaller and your fighters smaller still to represent one-man-fighters.

simple...

[timdp]

Suggestion: Make the circles 5.8mm, the same size as the holes on the ordnance bases.

BFG Imperial bomber is 10mm long, the assault boat is 9.5mm long and the fighters are 6.5mm long (really tiny), so the bomber and fighter models you are proposing in Experiment 1 are MUCH smaller than the BFG models and the experiment 2 models are even smaller. Eagle models are 14.4mm long.

I'm thinking drop the Eagle length to 11 or 12mm, make the bomber length 10mm and the fighter 7-8mm

Re the bomber design, with those three big engines where does the bomb load go? Does not seem to be any space for bombs! Maybe eliminate the center engine and make the other engines larger? Lengthening the fuselage would make it look more bomber and less fighter like.

[Malika]

Hmm, my personal preference would be to continue the scale of experiment 1, so the Eagle (Thunderhawk proxy) at 10mm long. My updated version of this old bomber design would then be around 7.5mm, whilst fighters (both the Javelin and Spiculum) are around 5mm. This is then for the Novan Elites.

The Novan Regulars/Navy could of course have bigger bomber and fighter craft, more matching in design with the old Imperial Navy ordnance perhaps.

[horizon]

A torpedo is 60 metres according Battlefleet Koronus.

[Malika]

Regarding the Imperial Navy ordnance. GW has been a bit inconsistent on their scales as well, both in text and artwork. I think that in written form the aircraft and jumbo jet sized (Fury Interceptor: 60 to 70 meters long), Shark Assault Boat: 55 meters long, Starhawk Bomber, unknown). There is something weird about it though...

The artwork gives a totally different picture:

Fury Interceptor:


Shark Assault Boat:


Starhawk Bomber:


The Starhawk is mentioned to be a 'more effective replacement for the Marauder bomber', but considering the Marauder is about 19 meters long, it would be odd the the more effective replacement would be 4-5 times bigger than the Marauder.

[Malika]

Novan Elites naval reinforcements inbound!

First up, the Panthera Heavy Frigate has been re-released in resin.

Nova Elites Fleet – Panthera II Pattern Heavy Frigate

The Panthera class Heavy Frigate is the workhorse of the Novan Elite fleets. Heavily armed and armoured, its various weapon configurations allow it to fulfil many different void combat roles.
No matter its broadside configuration, the Panthera’s basic armament includes two triple linked dorsal mounted turrets and two pairs of prow torpedo tubes. Its broadsides allow for different types of weapon systems which can be changed whilst in dock due to it’s modular design.

Most commonly used are weapons batteries, more than capable of tearing huge chunks out of enemy vessels many times its own size. Another popular configuration for the Panthera is to fit it with launch bays, allowing the heavy frigate to carry Javelin fighters. In order to protect other ships of the fleet from waves of ordnance and enemy fighters the Panthera is sometimes also configured with broadside turret platforms capable of projecting a withering volume of defensive fire.

set contents:

1 x Panthera hull
1 x Wing set (forward and aft)
2 x Triple turret broadsides
2 x Launch bay broadsides
2 x Gun deck broadsides

2 x Triple dorsal turrets

Model is 52mm long.

Resin cast model

https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/shop/novan-elites-fleet-panthera-ii-pattern-heavy-frigate/

And then there's a completely new ship, the Pardus Assault Frigate!

Novan Elites Fleet – Pardus Pattern Assault Frigate

The Pardus pattern assault frigate was a developed born of a need for a heavy hitting escort fitted with multiple plasma accelerators. The design is based on a modified Panthera hull which sacrifices its broadsides and torpedo capability in order to house the power core and systems necessary to feed three massive plasma accelerator cannon. Capable of firing all three cannon simultaneously in a devastating salvo that has been the doom of many an enemy vessel these ships are a extremely valuable asset for any Elites fleets.

They are often deployed in squadrons of two to four ships operating in line-breaker formations or as capital ship hunters of some renown.

Set contains:

1 x Pardus hull

1 x wings set (forward and aft)

2 x triple barrel dorsal  turrets

https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/shop/nova-elites-fleet-pardus-pattern-assault-frigate/