Dominion with Nova Cannon?

[Daemon_Primarch_Lorgar]

Hello again!
I'm thinking about adding a Dominion class battlecruiser to my fleet as a reserve and I just had two questions regarding that. First of:
1) Would you be ok to play against a Dominion class battlecruiser sporting a NC instead of torpedoes for +20pts? The reason I'm asking is that I thought it would look really cool alongside my Mars. I know I could basically just take another Mars if I want another NC, but I'd prefer not to use 2 of such a rare vessel in the same fleet. Or is there a reason why the Dominion can't take a NC?
2) I might be a little damaged from playing to much 40k here, but reserve vessels function in the same way as regular ships right? Just with some additional restrictions for which ships and how many you can take. So no special deployment stuff or arriving on later turns etc?

Thanks in advance !

[AndrewChristlieb]

I wouldnt have a problem with a Dominion w/ Nova. Of course that Dominion looks much better with a Dictator . Reserves deploy with the rest of the fleet.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Reserves function in game like normal, you only have the selection restrictions (1 reserve for every 3 of the same class) which you seem to know about. The only thing that would affect in game is if you are playing a Bastion Fleet list, then ALL your ships would be subject to "strange happening"

What are all the ships in your fleet?

[Daemon_Primarch_Lorgar]

Ok, that's great, thanks! So you think that Dominion would look much better with a Dictator Andrew? I thought you liked the symbiosis with the Mars ? I'm trying to take your advice and add another Nova cannon for my fleet as well as some long range lances. But instead of adding another Mars, I'm thinking: what the h**k! I'll just put a NC on a Dominion instead! Rule of cool hehe!

This is my list for the moment:


Imperial Retribution 355pts + PR 5pts
Admiral (+2 rerolls) 125pts
 
Imperial Mars Battlecruiser 260pts + Extra turret + 10pts + Targeting + 15pts
Secondary Commander (1 extra reroll) 45pts
 
Imperial Dominion 260pts + NC + 20pts + Extra turret + 5pts
 
Imperial Tyrant 175pts + Range 10pts + PR 5pts
Imperial Gothic 180pts + PR 5pts
 
Imperial Lunar 180pts + PR 5pts
Imperial Lunar 180pts + PR 5pts
 
Dauntless (Torpedo) 110pts
 
Dauntless (Lance) 110pts
 
4 Cobra class Destroyer 120pts
 
3 Firestorm class Frigate 105pts
 
6 Sword class Frigates 210pts
 
2500pts


I tried to listen to most of your suggestions from the other thread Andrew (I'll admit I couldn't say farewell to the power rams though haha! I play orks in 40k as well and I just love "We iz smashin"-stuff ;P!). So some of the minor upgrades got to stay, I just upped the lists point total. Easy fix hehe! So now I have 2 NC, some more long range lances and a heavy flanking force. Haven't had time to test it yet, but I like it on paper. Probably not optimized, but that was never the intention . It feels like it would play nicely though, with the battlecruisers offering support to the line cruisers and the Retribution as a flagship. Some fast elements and supporting escorts. Throw in a Ramilies and suddenly you have some terrifying ordinance support .

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Another mars wouldn't be bad to give you some more ordnance though...

[Daemon_Primarch_Lorgar]

Hehe yeah I know, I'm a little low on ordinance. I'm from the "Big gun"-lobby, no doubt .. I was actually thinking about using the Bakka fleet so I could increase the amount of turrets in my list, but then I wouldn't have had enough cruisers to use my Dauntlesses as Dauntlesses but would've had to use them as Endevours instead. If I can get my hands on a Ramilies, I'll add it to the fleet. That is some good ordinance support! 16LBs on that thing, it's crazy :O!

[horizon]

I support the big gun lobby.
Although 8 AC at 2500pts is tacky.
I might suggest not taking the NC on the Dominion, drop Firestorms for more Cobra's and switch Tyrant to Dominator.

This way you get a cheaper second NC, the Dominion retains its unique (previous Dictator only in the IN) aspect: synergy attacks from 1 vessel with torpedoes and attack craft.
Having more Cobra's means more torpedo markers to harass enemy ordnance plans.

[Khar]

I happen to be in good contact with Dominion's original creator, i might ask his oppinion on this.

I, personally, wouldn't have anything against it, apart from the fact I wouldn't personally use it - it would be in a bit of a conflict when it comes to special orders - nova likes locking on, bays need reloading. Torpedo version, as Horizon said, offers great synergy.

[Daemon_Primarch_Lorgar]

Thanks for the replies people !

Please excuse my ignorance horizon, but what does "8 AC at 2500pts is tacky" mean? Do you think that's to many launch bays for a 2.5k big gun lobbyist, or just that it is to few?

I agree with what you are saying, the synergy is better with the torpedoes no doubt. The reason why I'd like to put the NC on the Dominion is that I want another Mars-like cruiser to accompany my Mars (without actually being another Mars ). So I thought a Dominion with NC together with the Mars would look awesome in a battlecruiser squadron and also provide that extra NC that Andrew suggested while keeping all the line cruisers "pure" with their torpedoes for combined torpedo salvoes. So my battlecruiser squadron wouldn't have perfect synergy but actually be more of a "jack of all trades" kind of support squadron. Using "Lock on" for the first turn and focusing on enemy carriers and in later turns advancing behind the main fleet reloading ordinance and picking of potential flankers outside of their minimum range.
I actually thought of making my Retribution into a Victory just to get that second NC, but I dropped that idea after coming to the conclusion that the Retribution would look cooler and add to the line cruisers' "torpedo wall"-feel.
I'll definately look into the escorts, I want to include more of them (so why not some extra cobras ;P?!) and they would surely help me with the enemy's ordinance. The Tyrant (and the Gothic) are only there because they are common vessels and I like the fleet to be fluffy haha! The Dominion really looks exceptional from a rules perspective, but I just don't like it as much ..

Hahaha that would be awesome Khar, ask him if putting a NC on a Dominion would have get me a first class ticket to the firing squad for tech-heresy ..
But you wouldn't say paying an additional 20pts to get a NC on a Dominion was a waacky power gamer move? Because that's what I'm afraid of. I'm not really looking for the best synergy in these 2 vessels (if I were I would probably take 2 Dictators and 2 Dominators instead. But I don't want to do this because Dominators are rare and then I would have to add more Gothics, Tyrants, Lunars, Escorts etc to justify that and suddenly I'm playing 10.000pts... I know I'm a man haunted by the fluff hahaha!..).

Again, thank you all for your input, it always give me interesting new things to analyze instead of studying for my upcoming exams !

[Facialmatters]

Is a Dictator ruled out? Replace one of you line cruisers with that (its a 'fleet support cruiser') which still give synergized torps/ACs and make your second battlecruiser a lance-heavy Armageddon with Nova. Armageddons could perform the stand-off support role envisioned with their longer range weaponry. It would look good 'escorting' the Mars/Dictator carriers around the periphery, and are relatively common, being based off of recovered Lunar hulls.

Admittedly it would soften the main cruiser line, but eliminate the lance dauntless, one firestorm and sword and you can add another cruiser hull. I find your flanking force to be quite large for my taste

[AndrewChristlieb]

I think at 2500 that would be a fine list, maybe a bit low on AC but if its Bakka that's pretty much what I would expect to see. As others have said I would rather see the Dominion with torps because of the synergy but the Nova would be a fine upgrade too, especially given that your wanting to bring in a second Nova its very fitting with your fleet. Lock on aside the Mars has always been a top pick because of its ability to stand off from the fight and provide support, I really like the Dominion for the same reasons (and being all lances its a bit better at that imo). Remember the whole lock on Nova deal is a recent change and although it does help improve the ability to hit a ship I don't think it takes anything away from the Novas true purpose if they are not locked on (forcing people to brace, they're still likely to brace even if you don't lock on!).

If this is your 2500 list what are you planning to build from this for the other common levels? 2k (Campaign), 1500 (standard one off), 500,750,1k (standard raids)? Also if your planning on going with a BFG-R Bakka list I would hold off on doing that until Dan gets everything presented on that as its not likely to resemble a standard Imperial fleet in composition.

[Khar]

Dominion's creator has spoken: definitely no. Not giving it option for nova was a deliberate attempt to differentiate it from Mars. Therefore, if you want Nova+launch bay BC, buy Mars

Apart from that, I still think that such option would be kinda impractical to use efficently.

[Daemon_Primarch_Lorgar]

Hello again people!
Exams week is finally over and so I'm back for some more gaming !

@Facialmatters: I have been thinking about adding 2 Dictators to my fleet. Played a game today (1000pts against one of my friends ordinance heavy Tau lists. 3 Heros, 1 Custodion and a torpedo escort) and it was brutal! I made some mistakes over the course of the game but I felt like I really could have used some more fighters in that game. However, I do like my current setup with 1 Battleship, 2 Battlecruisers, 4 Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers and 13 Escorts. It looks nice on the table and gives a courteous nod to the fluff . But I'm seriously considering a Ramilies for when I'm up against my slightly more competitive opponent and his 5 Battleships and 40 LBs.. However, I also faced my other opponent and his Eldar in a 2300pts game and that was a much closer run! He had 10 LBs against my 8, but even though his ordinance was more powerful than mine, it wasn't a noticeable difference and I could still fight back and in the end claim a minor victory.

@Andrew: I'm still trying out a couple of different lists at other points levels, but these are the ships I have available atm (still waiting for 3 Swords and 3 Firestorms though). I've actually not used the Bakka fleet list yet, I'm trying to be wysiwyg with my fleet and I have 2 Dauntlesses which you can't use in the current Bakka list. If Dan changes that for the new Bakka fleet perhaps I'll give it a try, I would certainly like some more turrets . The only problem I have witnessed yet in smaller games have been against these pesky Tau and their bombers. And that is also the main weakness I have with my two and only my carriers being battlecruisers, I can't use both of them in games under 1200pt But by the Emperor I WILL manage to beat these xenos scum on my own terms! I'm not going to tailor my list to beat one specific opponent .

@Khar: I guess you have to report my tech-heresy to the proper authorities then as I actually already built a Dominion with a NC .. It just looked to cool to pass up haha! I've tried it out and I can agree with you that it is a bit unpractical in the way that you don't always know what special order you want to use and that it is kin of a jack of all trades ship, but I like it together with the Mars. It provides some excellent flexibility and that's really how I would prefer to play my battlecruisers (the rest of my fleet isn't exactly flexible but pretty straight forward hehe)..

[Mallich]

EDIT: Looks like I was wrong. Text removed, and thanks for the correction, Horizon.

[horizon]

Hi,

@ Mallich, under BFG:Revised the Hero is unrestricted (and weaker!).

The lone escort: actually, if you only field 1 escort in the entire fleet it is possible to do so.

So he fielded a total of 12 launch bays. Plus all vessels could lay down a torpedo marker.
You had 8 fighters + torpedo's (from how many?).

With those 8 fighters you would need to divert 4 to take down the enemy missiles. That is 4 left to thwart the enemy bombers. Being resilient that is a hard job but not impossible. Use for example direct fire to take down the largest waves (from the Custodian). Mass your vessels to mass turrets against enemy waves.
Try to shut down the Custodian as that is the main beast. Going on AAF to get closer isn't a bad idea. But only if you are secure to make it at least brace. Otherwise you will be... in some trouble.