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Author Topic: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace  (Read 7395 times)

Offline Mallich

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2013, 10:38:33 AM »
Quote
Assault boats, eh?  I thought however that necrons got their reactive hull save against Hit and Run attacks as well as repairing critical hits on a 4+.  Not to question your judgment, rather just out of curiosity, how does that work?
They don't get their reactive hull save (5+, 4+, whatever) because that is considered a shield and a-boats ignore shields. They do however get their 2+ save when on BFI, because that's a brace save. This is the same ruling as for the Warp Cannon on an activated Blackstone Fortress. [...] [Warp Cannon ignore holofields for some reason, even though they're a type of lance and HFs are meant to spoof lances, but hey, it's GW, what can you do? Who plays the official Eldar rules anyway?]
One way to counter necrons is to make sure that the player plays by the rules, so I figured I'll ask for a clarification.  ::)
I'm wondering what the 4+, 5+, and 6+ save (and the 2+ save) does or doesn't work against.
From what you're saying the 4+, 5+, and 6+ save is a shield, and so it protects against guns, most lances, and exploding ships.
Gauss Particle Whips that roll a 6 ignore shields, so would therefore ignore the save in necron vs necron battles. Tyranid Bio-Plasma and Warp Cannons are lances that ignore shields. Ordnance, boarding, ramming and fire ships all ignore shields. These therefore ignore the 4+, 5+, and 6+ saves.
Quote from: Necron rules
The save is 6+ for Raiders, 5+ for harvesters and Scythes and 4+ for tombships. If the Necron vessel uses Brace for Impact then the save is modified to 2+
If we're interpreting "then the save is modified to 2+" as "then the Brace for Impact save is modified to 2+" (rather than "the reactive hull save is modified to 2+") then the 2+ save works against everything except for boarding.
How much of this is right?

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2013, 05:33:58 AM »
The Necron save counts as a "shield mechanic" only for the purposes of weapons which specifically state they ignore shield mechanics, such as Warp Cannon or GPWs that hit on a 6, etc. Boarding attacks bypass the reactive hull completely, braced or not, and H&R attacks are only saved against if braced. Bombers and torpedoes (including boarding torpedoes) are saved against normally, as are Tyranid bio-plasma shots.

Necrons certainly get their save against Fire ships when braced and they (less certainly) get it when unbraced too. This is because the mechanism by which Fire ships ignore enemy shields isn't well explained. It's just a massive explosion that goes through shields, and yet it doesn't overload those shields ... Either way, since it doesn't specifically say that it ignores shield mechanics (as opposed to just shields) and it's not a H&R attack, Necrons should get their save.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 05:54:02 AM by Sigoroth »

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2013, 05:48:20 AM »
I assume you mean bioplasma would ignore the save but not the brace.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2013, 05:54:36 AM »
I assume you mean bioplasma would ignore the save but not the brace.

No. Bioplasma is saved against normally.

Offline Lord Duggie The Mad

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2013, 10:39:53 AM »
I assume you mean bioplasma would ignore the save but not the brace.

No. Bioplasma is saved against normally.

That's how we've played it too.  Slightly off-topic observation though: what's a bug vessel doing within 15cm of a necron ship and not getting down to the business of getting their daily intake of iron? ;D
"Orders, sir?"
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Offline Seahawk

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2013, 12:00:02 PM »
Space Marines blow them apart spectacularly with bombardment cannons! Maybe ally in one or two strike cruisers? Bonus: thunderhawks!

Offline Lord Duggie The Mad

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2013, 01:31:26 PM »
Space Marines blow them apart spectacularly with bombardment cannons! Maybe ally in one or two strike cruisers? Bonus: thunderhawks!

Good point, I can probably squeeze one in to a smaller game.  The inquisition ships have those guns too, but I will need to build one.  At this stage, the only way I can envision that happening is to cannibalize one of my unpainted navy cruisers.  I wonder if Games Workshop will continue production of the plastic ships...
"Orders, sir?"
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Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2013, 03:51:22 PM »
FAQ 2010: Reactive Hulls work exactly like a Brace but not against H&Rs and Warp Cannons. When braced, they can also brace those. I suppose the FAQ clears that up quite nicely!

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2013, 09:57:05 PM »
FAQ 2010: Reactive Hulls work exactly like a Brace but not against H&Rs and Warp Cannons. When braced, they can also brace those. I suppose the FAQ clears that up quite nicely!

Not quite. Reactive hulls don't offer saves vs boarding actions either. They forgot to mention that.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2013, 10:18:48 PM »
They don't need to because BFI doesn't defend against boarding damage either.

Offline Lord Duggie The Mad

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2013, 05:06:49 AM »
Not really relevant for a Navy fleet but having a look through the powers of Chaos I had one idea:

Grab a Slaaneshi executor class grand cruiser with that siren song thingy upgrade.  Half a dozen lances with no chance to brace if your within 15cm.  'Tis an expensive upgrade path though and it kinda makes it into an HMS Priority Target.  Still, muahahahaha!  ;D
"Orders, sir?"
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Offline Lord Duggie The Mad

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2013, 10:15:45 AM »
Huzzah! 

Thanks for the advice gentlemen.  I played a 1500 point fleet engagement against the Necrons over the weekend that included my newly painted dominator and dauntless cruisers.  Two nova cannons in the fleet - I didn't feel that was too cheesy given the size.

I have to admit that luck was with me through most of the game: 
Both Scythe cruisers ended up with Ld 6
My first two shots with nova cannons were massive: one scythe crippled and the tombship took 3 hits
Almost half of my shots went critical

By game's end I had crippled the entire fleet and successfully boarded a shroud class light cruiser for the loss of one sword class frigate and two hits off my gothic cruiser, the Resolute.

His Imperial Majesty's Navy:  969 (if I did it right)
The Necron tombfleet:           0

Thanks all for your advice.  I've since converted an inquisition ship and that is in the painting production queue - Muahahaha...
"Orders, sir?"
"Blast 'em to bits!  Do I have to think of everything?!"

Offline Mallich

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Re: Necron counter tactics: Staving off the necron menace
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2013, 03:50:53 PM »
Wooh - congratulations on the fine victory!