ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

As well, I am going to put together just a simple text only PDF for now and put it up for review. A few days after I get it up, I will hold a vote for ASC 2.0 IN.

Now to start coming up with Space Marines.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

ASC 2.0 folder on Dropbox

The file Addition Ships Compendium 2- Imperial Navy is a text only pdf of the rules we came up with here
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dqk34679tgv9719/XxTc6yU3mm/ASC%202.0

Look it over and continue the discussion as neccessary
Hot topics/slightly unresolved issues were:
Firedagger FDT
Chalice BC fragility (and by extension Invincible BB for comparison)
Feedback on Dreadnoughts lacking (I put them in Italics for "Unfinished")
Python Sloop Special Rules (no finalized feed back)
Adeptus Arbites Punished (no feedback at all)
Majestic BB weapons loadout

Hot topics that seemed resolved:
Deimos Meteor Torps
Furious GC stats
Reprisal BB stats
Terra BB stats (reduction from SUPER Battleship, less Ark Mechanicus like)

[ehlijen]

Not sure what to say about the dreadnaughts. I'm not convinced the game can handle ships that size, but I guess that's why they're in the ASC.

The Terra looks good. In line with the new Retribution and leaves a place for the Ark Mechanicus.

The Majestic has too many lances, I think. Going by the rule of thumb of 3 WBs=1 lance (and thus ignoring the range penalty of WBs), the majestic can bring 20WB equivalents to bear on a target at 60cm vs the Emperor's 16. I'd suggest either dropping the broadside lances to 45cm or the dorsal lances to strength 2 (which'd make it 17 vs 16). That or throw another 10-15 points on the price to account for it just being better than the emperor.

The firedagger needs a clarification on whether the fleet defence turret only works during the ordnance phase or, if not, whether the limit of uses also applies outside the ordnance phase (eg if a ship moves into torpedoes in the movement phase).

The punisher seems very expensive. It's a strike cruiser with worse armour and a ld bubble. It seems the ld bubble is valued at 35 points + whatever 6+ side and rear cost? I'd suggest a slight reduction in cost. +1 ld is good, but most ships that would truly benefit would tie the punisher's movement down too much. Also, does this +1 stack with the emperor's prow comms?
My suggestion would be 145, gains +1 to its rolled ld and all squadron members, but no one else.

No Hawking? Le sad

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

More elaborate reply later, but the Hawking is coming later, just for RT/Ad Mech use, rather than IN.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Not sure what to say about the dreadnaughts. I'm not convinced the game can handle ships that size, but I guess that's why they're in the ASC.

The Terra looks good. In line with the new Retribution and leaves a place for the Ark Mechanicus.

The Majestic has too many lances, I think. Going by the rule of thumb of 3 WBs=1 lance (and thus ignoring the range penalty of WBs), the majestic can bring 20WB equivalents to bear on a target at 60cm vs the Emperor's 16. I'd suggest either dropping the broadside lances to 45cm or the dorsal lances to strength 2 (which'd make it 17 vs 16). That or throw another 10-15 points on the price to account for it just being better than the emperor.

The firedagger needs a clarification on whether the fleet defence turret only works during the ordnance phase or, if not, whether the limit of uses also applies outside the ordnance phase (eg if a ship moves into torpedoes in the movement phase).

The punisher seems very expensive. It's a strike cruiser with worse armour and a ld bubble. It seems the ld bubble is valued at 35 points + whatever 6+ side and rear cost? I'd suggest a slight reduction in cost. +1 ld is good, but most ships that would truly benefit would tie the punisher's movement down too much. Also, does this +1 stack with the emperor's prow comms?
My suggestion would be 145, gains +1 to its rolled ld and all squadron members, but no one else.

No Hawking? Le sad

That is exactly why the ships are in the ASC. To be utterly absurd and for people with crazy models and rediculous fleet sizes. Think of it like a super heavy in a game of Apocalypse for 40k. It isn't intended for normal play, but can be really fun for giant games.

For the majestic, I'd rather go up in points, considering design consistency. The Ret has S3 dorsal lances, and the Apoc has 3 harpoints each with S2 60cm lances.

Good point on the firedagger. Anyone else any input?

You are right on the cost of the Punisher. I forgot the basic SC had SM crew built into its cost. I'd say just a massive drop in cost and keep everything else the same. I'd rather not tie the ld bonus to a squadron, as I think it is a cooler mechanic to have this zoom around and apply a +1 lb bonus to vessels where it is needed most.

I'd say a flat 145 for the ship.

[ehlijen]

Fair enough on all points.

The easiest solution for the FDT would be to simply clearly restrict it to the ordnance phase. That way, you won't have to account for ships moving at different times, which could lead to the following:

Firedagger grants turret to a dauntless 10cm behind it.
Firedagger moves 25cm ahead. Distance now 35cm.
Dauntless moves 25cm forward but contacts torpedoes 10cm into its move.

Does it get the FDT bonus? It was in range when the firedagger declared it. I was going to be in range at the end of the movement phase, but it isn't when the torpedoes come in. And if it doesn't get them, and is destroyed, does the firedagger waste the turret doing nothing that turn?
A rule could be written to account for all that, but it will be more complex, need a few more design decisions and then would only be triggered on rare occasions. Not sure it's worth overcomplicating the rule for.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Made some changes

new link to temporary working document
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/61590635/ASC%202.0/Additional%20Ships%20Compendium%202-%20Imperial%20Navy.pdf

Changes made
-Abyss class now Colossus. Want to save Abyss class for Chaos.
-Firedagger FDT are Ordnance phase only
-Python class is required 1 per 500 points to use its attack rating reroll. No other "downside"
-Arbites cruiser is 160 points and +1 in boarding actions

Look it over, if I get at least a thumbs up or two, I will go ahead and finally put IN to vote

[ehlijen]

Looks good to me.

No adjustment to the Majestic, though?

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Upped the Majestic 10 points. Posting the vote topic now

[radu lykan]

just wondering if i could submit a ship design of my own for consideration? built it for gothicomp 2012 i think  and it will hopefully get painted in time for 2013

Centurion Class
Hits: 8
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5/6+
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
port/starboard Weapons Batteries- R:45cm S:4 Arc- L/R
port/starboard lances- R:45cm S3 Arc L/R
Prow Torpedoes- speed 30cm S6 Arc F

Due to the strain the enhanced lances and super fired plasma weapons batteries put the ships power grid under any special orders or damage results that halve the ships weapons round down rather than up.


Due to the rare ness of the Centurion class only one vessel of this type may be included in your fleet.

Centurion.
The 100th cruiser to be constructed upon the forge world of Fornax, the Centurion, was originally intended to be a Tyrant class cruiser but the head of the priesthood on Fornax decreed such a momentous occasion required something more grandiose to mark the century of ships Fornax had produced in honour of the Omnisiah and the Machine God.
A new class would be created, something to show the enemies of mankind their ships inferiority compared to those of the Imperium. The original Tyrant hull’s power grid and targeting systems were significantly upgraded using parts from a recently decommissioned grand cruiser enabling the installation of long ranged lance turrets as well as the famed super fired plasma weapon batteries that the tyrant is usually equipped with.
With the ruler of Fornax behind the new class’ creation the many objections often raised by techno magi reluctant to create something new were simply ignored and the Centurion was able to take its place in Battle Fleet Eschataris on schedule. Since that day the Centurion has gone on to earn many battle honours, the Centurion’s broadside is the rival of any other cruiser class in the Imperium, both in power and range, blurring the lines between the cruiser and battle cruiser classes.
The Centurion has become famous for its exploits and though it was intended as a unique creation, a one off showing of the might of man, its blue prints have found their way into the hands of forge worlds in other sectors and even other segmentum and so the numbers of Centurion class cruisers is steadily increasing.


when i originally posted 220 points was suggested?
pics
http://s3.zetaboards.com/The_Ammobunker/topic/7060720/10/#post8290185

[ehlijen]

Are those really meant to be S3 lance bays on the Centurion? That doesn't seem to fit with either cruiser or BC standards.

If this cruiser is meant to mate the Tyrant's long range batteries and the Armageddons Lances but without the turrets, shouldn't the lance bays be S2?

[radu lykan]

if you look at the pic it has 3 lances, i converted it to make a change from the standard imperial navy set ups, am considering trying a ship with just 1 lance and teh rest weapons batteries.

[horizon]

The Desolator has six in the picture, so if you see 3 that can mean strenght 2 (sequential fire).

[ehlijen]

Then I'd suggest making it 3 WBs each side as well (ie half of a 6 block)

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Do you have a picture.  I am having trouble envisioning it