ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I'd leave out the Abyss-class Dreadnoughts for now.  We really don't have anywhere near a good enough depiction of their armaments in the novels (...yet; I'd trust A D-B to do his research and consultations and do a decent job of it), so I'd rather hold off on that.  At least until we're a little further in and see if ANY of the three survive the Heresy (Furious Abyss is definitely sunk, Trisagion and Blessed Lady... dunno yet).  Plus, super-mega-death cannons are hard to balance (and oddly enough, A D-B in "Betrayer" avoided any mention whatsoever of the ridiculous Yamato gun from "Battle for the Abyss" anyhow...).  I'll spill the beans and say I was planning on building one eventually... (a Word Bearers friend was remarking on how he'd like to have a battle barge-type ship in BFG for his 40K/Epic army) but I was planning on just using the Chaos Space Hulk rules to represent it since that made for a reasonable shortcut for designing an absurdly massive warship that's received the standard Black Library hyperbole treatment.

I kinda see your point, but at the same time I'd still be interested in building one even if they are all destroyed. And since the HH is really focused on characters and story lines of individuals, I doubt we will ever see the actual armament. Just a fun hobby project. But the backburner is an okay place I guess.

The Phalanx survided though... hmmm...

Anyways, I am going to bed now. Discuss amongst yourselves.

[AndrewChristlieb]

6 turrets are fine, with the suppression rules you can still get some attacks. These things are pretty expensive too so I wouldnt think anything less than a BB sized wave should be able to reliably cause any damage.

[Bessemer]

I'd also leave the Dreadnoughts for now. Still, what a pair of monsters! Did you make the Abyss, Gothmog?

The Deimos looks pretty solid, if expensive, but given the points made by others above it is worth it. Would be even better at 220 or less.

Max 6 turrets! Anything else is just evil...

As for the second part blah! Theres nothing wrong with the 6th ed allies system and the people complaining about it being against the fluff are either misinformed or lacking in imagination (probably both). Now BFG probably doesn't need to get as in depth as the 40k setup but I don't see any problem with allowing your X to ally with Y if you have a good back story and its not flat out against the fluff. Ive not heard anyone complain against the game play tho, thats the one thing Ive heard good things about .

^^^Here, here!^^^

I think reserves/allies would be better suited on a points based system. Something along the lines of you may take up to six escorts for every 500 points, one cruiser for every 750 points, or one battleship for every 1500 points in your fleet. You may not have more reserve or allied vessels than you have ships of that type from your main fleet. Well something like that anyway.

That's a pretty decent alternative! Tested to any degree?

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Okay, so I am leaving the Dreads sitting for not. Still as a final discussion point, leaving costs 1000 and 850 respectively. Sure they have less hits than hulks, but they move and have more firepower and a great diversity of weapons. And no, I did not build the Abyss class. The ship is pictured in Warp Rift 9 and I remember seeing it on the old boards/Gothicomp. The rules however are my design. There was nothing on it, so I figured I'd go off what was pictured and it was a sensible choice to represent something akin to the Furious Abyss.

I put the Deimos at 225. Glad everyon liked it. The concept from Warp Rift was cool, just overly complicated IMO.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Majestic Class BB- 370
Hits: 12
Speed: 15cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 4
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 5
Weapons:
Port Lances- R: 60cm S: 2 Arc: L
Stbd Lances- R: 60cm S: 2 Arc: R
Port LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 4 Arc:-
Port LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 4 Arc:-
Dorsal lances- R: 60cm S: 3 Arc: L/F/R
Prow WB- R: 60cm S: 5 Arc: L/F/R
Special Rules: +1ld. Cannot use come to new heading. +5 pts for Assault Boats.

Claymore Class Corvette- 25
Hits: 1
Speed: 25cm
Turns: 90*
Shields: 1
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 1
Weapons:
Weapons Battery- R:30cm S:3 Arc- L/F/R

Turbulent Class Heavy Frigate- 50
Hits: 2
Speed: 25cm 20cm
Turns: 90*
Shields: 1
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Weapons Battery- R:30cm S:4 Arc- L/F/R
Port WB- R:30cm S:3 Arc- L
Stbd WB- R:30cm S:3 Arc- R
Special Rules- +1d6 to AAF

Firedagger Class Frigate- 35
Hits: 1
Speed: 25cm
Turns: 90*
Shields: 1
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Weapons Battery- R:30cm S:2 Arc- L/F/R
Fleet Defense Turret- R:15cm S:1 Arc- All Round
Special Rules- Fleet Defence Turrets add +1 Turret to a friendly ship w/in 15cm. They may only be used once per ordnance phase. They may be used on the Firedagger itself.

[afterimagedan]

Majestic: the wbs bring that low at 60cm is a major turnoff. Try the dorsal at 9wb range 60 like the apoc and prow 2 lances.

Claymore: compare it to the Iconoclast. I think this could be made into a counterpart to it. Also, I think calling it something other than corvette would be good. I would consult andrewchristlieb's write-up for the corvette stuff.

Turbulent: in would like to see some editing of the weapons to change it from a beefed up sword. Maybe make it have the SM nova weaponry with both being F/L/R?

Firedagger: here we go again..... The fleet defense turrets is a highly hot button issue around here. Personally, I have no problem with it.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Majestic: the wbs bring that low at 60cm is a major turnoff. Try the dorsal at 9wb range 60 like the apoc and prow 2 lances.

Claymore: compare it to the Iconoclast. I think this could be made into a counterpart to it. Also, I think calling it something other than corvette would be good. I would consult andrewchristlieb's write-up for the corvette stuff.

Turbulent: in would like to see some editing of the weapons to change it from a beefed up sword. Maybe make it have the SM nova weaponry with both being F/L/R?

Firedagger: here we go again..... The fleet defense turrets is a highly hot button issue around here. Personally, I have no problem with it.

I was warry about Dorsal WB and making the Majestic too diverse. Your design is sound in principle though. What does everyone else think?

Claymore is a Corvette directly out of the Battlefleet Koronus book- changing the name not so much an option as a result. It looks smaller than a falcion and has a small armament. If his idea of a corvette is a ship that bridges the gap between ordnance and escorts, there is something like that coming based off grimdark bits patrol torpedo boat squadron.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/680962/bfg-patrol-torpedo-boat-squadron-x3.html?li=productBox-search
 As compared to the Iconoclast, I think it is right on, as the Iconoclast is 30cm but is 4+, whereas this is 25cm but 5+. I'll loose a turret too to make it even.

The Turbulent is also directly out of BF Koronus. It unfortunately has no lance on it in that.

As for the firedagger and fleet defence turret, I don't think it matters if people hate the idea of them or not. This is a compendium of UNOFFICIAL ships, and as such are used
1- ONLY with opponents permission
2- are intended for Fun and/or Fluffy use in friendly games and/or unique scenarios

I would see the point in arguing over them if they were being worked into an official list, but since this is an unofficial fan work for uncompetitive friendly use, I think they are fine and it should be allowed for players to use it if they want to.

[AndrewChristlieb]

How does the Firedagger stack up with the changes to the FDT? I would think something more along the lines of 3wbs @30cm l/f/r and 'blah fluffy bit blah' when shooting at ordinance the Firedagger always hits on a 4+.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

There were changes to FDT? Where at? I would prefer it match whatever the current agreed upon (or at least prefered) design is. I was just going right off the Book of Nemesis.

[AndrewChristlieb]

FDT was tweaked in the Admech rules, iirc its now +2 turrets max of 6 and all ships within 15cm may re-roll their misses with turrets.

[Bessemer]

Majestic
How 'bout fpw9 WB's on the top, and remove the frontal WB's? 350/360 if so? Or we keep Radu Lykan's "Emperor with lances" idea for 365?

Claymore
Knock off a turret and it looks good to me.

Turbulent
Not to sure on this. Basicly a suped up Sword. I can't really knock the idea, just think it could be a bit more different . I don't have BFK, so can't really comment further

Firedagger
the FDT is a bit good to have on escorts IMO. How about we kept the RR turrets within 15cm (i.e. no +2 turrets for the Firedagger), and hit Ordnance on 4+ like Andrew says.  Fpw3?

[Armiger84]

I've been slowly going through my copy of BFK.  For the Turbulent, maybe chop 5cm off its normal movement speed and increase its firepower by +1 (maybe +2, but the output of 2 iconoclasts sounds like too much)?  I'll have to look at the book again but she seemed bigger and slower than a sword, but her reactor could better power her weapons systems.

That would leave her capable of a big burst of speed on demand, but she would play well as a battleship/transport escort or an ultra-light cruiser.

I know she's meant to be more of a heavy scout/picket, but that's sort of hard to actually model on a 4' x 6' table, fighting across the narrower side.

EDIT:  Re: more firepower; that's why the Havoc's batteries are chopped into 2 & 3, to weaken it on AAF orders, isn't it?

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Majestic
How 'bout fpw9 WB's on the top, and remove the frontal WB's? 350/360 if so? Or we keep Radu Lykan's "Emperor with lances" idea for 365?

Claymore
Knock off a turret and it looks good to me.

Turbulent
Not to sure on this. Basicly a suped up Sword. I can't really knock the idea, just think it could be a bit more different . I don't have BFK, so can't really comment further

Firedagger
the FDT is a bit good to have on escorts IMO. How about we kept the RR turrets within 15cm (i.e. no +2 turrets for the Firedagger), and hit Ordnance on 4+ like Andrew says.  Fpw3?

Well I was trying to keep it as an Emperor with lances. Thus the WB S5 at the front. The Emperor does have WB dorsals as well, but I figured the "with lances" part would include the Turrets on top. You look at a picture of the Emperor and the prow WB are just not set up to be lances.

I'll drop a turret off the Claymore. It will match the Iconoclast then.

I'd like to figure out something too for the Turbulent. Maybe the only escort with 45cm? Obviously lower the S back down a bit.

What about a trimmed down FDT, +1 instead of +2?

[AndrewChristlieb]

Turbulent Class Heavy Frigate- 50
Hits: 2
Speed: 25cm
Turns: 90*
Shields: 1
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2 It only has one in BFK.
Weapons:
Weapons Battery- R:30cm S:4 Arc- L/F/R Now for something completely different. What about giving it 4 port and starboard weapons batteries instead of 4 L/F/R like the Drow?
Special Rules- +1d6 AAF Its faster than a cruiser but slower than a Sword, how about 20cm speed with the +5d6 aaf?

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Turbulent Class Heavy Frigate- 50
Hits: 2
Speed: 25cm
Turns: 90*
Shields: 1
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 2 It only has one in BFK.
Weapons:
Weapons Battery- R:30cm S:4 Arc- L/F/R Now for something completely different. What about giving it 4 port and starboard weapons batteries instead of 4 L/F/R like the Drow?
Special Rules- +1d6 AAF Its faster than a cruiser but slower than a Sword, how about 20cm speed with the +5d6 aaf?

Not dropping a turret. BFK doesn't translate directly into BFG and it won't have less turrets than a sword.

I like the speed idea.

A light cruiser is 6 @ 30cm on each side. 4 on an escort seems too heavy.

I say maybe either 3 a side OR 4 L/F/R @ 45cm