July 28, 2024, 03:25:41 AM

Author Topic: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy  (Read 27073 times)

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2013, 03:22:31 PM »
Roger. So Grand Cruisers are finished for now and will go to vote as is (unless people come back with more to add on).

I'll get some BC and CA profiles up later today.
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2013, 01:36:41 AM »
Chalice Class Fast Battlecruiser- 195  ???
Hits: 6 8
Speed: 30cm 25cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+/6+ Front
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 60cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 60cm S: 8 Arc: R
Dorsal Lances- R: 60cm S: 2 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 6 Arc- F
Special Rules: +1D6 AAF. Roll twice when checking for critical hits. When checking for critical hits, it receives a critical hit on a 5+. When a critical hit is received, roll an additional d6. On a 5+, the Chalice suffers a fire Critical Damage result in addition to the results of the critical hit. Roll 4D6 for Plasma Drive Overlord Catasrophic Damage results.
Design Notes- Based on the Rouge Trade RPG expansion Battlefleet Koronus. Suppossed to be a Battlecruiser with a glass jaw, much like the Invincible class BB. The only debate I have is the speed. 30cm is REALLY fast, but I feel it needs to be faster than the Mecury BC. Is is basically a really fast overlord. Should it be knocked back down to 25cm?

Daemon Slayer Class Cruiser- 190 180 (170)
Hits: 8
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+/6+ Front
Turrets: 2
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 10 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 10 Arc: R
Prow Psychic Cannon- R: 30cm S:1 Arc: F
Special Rules: Psychic Cannon- Works as a lance that hits on a 5+, causing one point of damage in addition to the following
Daemonships: Banished Back to the Warp
Hiveships w/ synaptic control: Cannot excert synaptic control.
All other tyranid vessels: must rely on instinctive behaviour
Marked Chaos Ships, Eldar Ships and Dark Eldar ships- behave as if cripples next turn
Tau ships (not including Kroot, Niccassar or Demiurg)- No additional effects.
All other ships: must pass LD check or behaves as if it is crippled the following turn.
ALL SHIPS: May not perform exterminatus and may not fire Nova Cannons/Armageddon Guns/Warp Cannons the turn following a hit by a psychic cannon.
Design notes: I like the ship as is but modified the psychic cannon to be more fluffy. I changed the cost to be the same as a BFG:R Tyrant with upgraded batteries.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 12:18:24 AM by Gothmog Lord of Balrogs »
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2013, 02:37:01 AM »
I would consider lowering the Chalice's weapon battery range down. You have to spend points on the range which makes the speed less important. I would consider 30cm range or something like that. That would make the fact quality more important to use. No ideas on the Daemon Slayer.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2013, 02:46:43 AM »
I wouldn't go 30cm. It would just die (only 6 hits and fragile) and the fact it is fast would be useless, as it has to get close and stay close, whereas longer range means it would use its speed to maintain itselt at longer range.
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2013, 04:46:17 AM »
So what's the point of this vessel? I mean, why not just take an overlord? Speed matters much more for a Slaughter, for example, and the slaughter doesn't have the 6+ prow yet is considered a great ship. Yes this ship only has 6 hits, but that 6+ prow will make up some of the lost ground.

Offline Bessemer

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 339
    • Loc: UK
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2013, 10:16:52 PM »
The Daemon Slayer looks OK to me, don't know if 190's the right price though. Do you really think the psychic cannon should be the same cost as 6 torps? Would go with 180 myself. Just seems right.
My only real misgiving is that this vessel was first introduced in the original Bakka list IIRC, so the Bakka BFGR committee may have already worked on this...any Bakka Committee members wish to clarify on this?

Don't play RT so, can't say much on the Chalice. Does it's RT profile fit the above? I can see what you did though, effectively making it a cruiser version of the Invincible. As for range, Dan's comment holds up. A drop to 45cm may be a compromise. Fpw 10 if so?
If 30cm, would that scale to fpw 12-14? You'd have a ship that could zip in and cause a shed load of damage, but be venerable to counter-attacks, going out in a blaze of glory! Does that fit this vessels fluff in any way?

In effect, getting a light-weight Imperial Slaughter...don't know how some would feel about that! But, this is BFG's "Apocrypha" after all!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 10:24:18 PM by Bessemer »
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4197
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2013, 08:09:53 PM »
Hey,
regarding the Chalice, looking at Battlefleet Koronus I would say the speed should be 25cm. It has the same speed as an Endeavour (which has 20cm in BFG), but 1 more then the Overlord. Some tipping and 25cm seems good, 30cm is over the top.
It has less armour then the Overlord & Endeavour, but same integrity as Overlord and more then Endeavour.

The special rule is that is has more power if a plasma drive is installed, the backfire it that when taking a critical hit it has a 25% chance of getting an additional fire critical.
That last part could be translated into BFG:
When the Chalice takes a critical hit roll a D6: on a 5+ it takes an additional Fire Critical.

Armour wise/Nr of hits I would keep it at 6+/5+ and 8 hits. The Glass Jaw translates into the critical hits (hmmm, perhaps the vessel takes critical hits on a 5+? This way 1 hit can easily give a critical + the chance of a fire).

Weapon wise:
The Chalice is depicted with all weapon batteries. That gives the following options:
i. It is an Overlord variant
ii. It is a battlecruiser variant of the Tyrant
iii. It is a battlecruiser variant of the Dominator

Option iii can be dropped as the Dominator is rare outside of Kar Duniash, the Chalice is Calixis build.

Basically I think Gothmog's weapon profile will do the job.
The +1d6 at AAF is good as well.

Offline Armiger84

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 131
    • Loc: Boston, MA
    • De Bellis Futuris
ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2013, 09:31:46 PM »
I really need to get my hands on a copy of Battlefleet Koronus.

I like Horizon's approach to giving the Chalice a "glass jaw;" wondering if people think that would be a good rules change for the Invincible/Blasphemer too (critical damage on a 5+, and an automatic fire critical)?  That would make them more vulnerable to critical strikes, but with that kind of vulnerability, I'd be slightly more amenable to playing around with the number of hits/shields to balance them a bit more perhaps to fit the basing requirements without having to add yet another special rule.  Just a thought.
My modelling blog:  http://armiger84.blogspot.com

Offline Bessemer

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 339
    • Loc: UK
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2013, 11:44:37 PM »
When the Chalice takes a critical hit roll a D6: on a 5+ it takes an additional Fire Critical.
Like it! Apply to Invincible/Blasphemer also, like Armiger suggested?

Weapon wise:
The Chalice is depicted with all weapon batteries.
Even on the top? Just wondering, as WB's on the dorsal mount would differentiate the Chalice from the Overlord a little more. Fpw6 60cm?
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2013, 11:57:20 PM »
No it has lances on the dorsal and Overlord weapons on the port/starboard.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2013, 12:04:47 AM »
Hey,
regarding the Chalice, looking at Battlefleet Koronus I would say the speed should be 25cm. It has the same speed as an Endeavour (which has 20cm in BFG), but 1 more then the Overlord. Some tipping and 25cm seems good, 30cm is over the top.
It has less armour then the Overlord & Endeavour, but same integrity as Overlord and more then Endeavour.

The special rule is that is has more power if a plasma drive is installed, the backfire it that when taking a critical hit it has a 25% chance of getting an additional fire critical.
That last part could be translated into BFG:
When the Chalice takes a critical hit roll a D6: on a 5+ it takes an additional Fire Critical.

Armour wise/Nr of hits I would keep it at 6+/5+ and 8 hits. The Glass Jaw translates into the critical hits (hmmm, perhaps the vessel takes critical hits on a 5+? This way 1 hit can easily give a critical + the chance of a fire).

Weapon wise:
The Chalice is depicted with all weapon batteries. That gives the following options:
i. It is an Overlord variant
ii. It is a battlecruiser variant of the Tyrant
iii. It is a battlecruiser variant of the Dominator

Option iii can be dropped as the Dominator is rare outside of Kar Duniash, the Chalice is Calixis build.

Basically I think Gothmog's weapon profile will do the job.
The +1d6 at AAF is good as well.

I was going off the fluff and not the rules from the Koronus book, so thanks for delving into that!  ;D

I think crits on a 5+ is needed if it gets bumped back to 8 hits, because remember, the Invincible is 8 hits as well and is a BB!

I like the revised "glass" jaw syndrome, as fire is devastating, but the 1/3rd chance is definately more fair than an auto-fire as was discussed during invincible developement.

As for the weaponry, I think it should be lances, but Judge for yourself (though WB would make it "different")

"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2013, 12:27:05 AM »
So I adjusted the points cost of the Daemonslayer and made the changes to the Chalice. What should its point cost be?

The only other thing is now it seems REALLy close to the overlord. Basically just faster but easier to kill. But BFG:R has some super similar ships (The Tyrant and Dominator are too close IMO, I like the feel of the original Tyrant better than the BFG:R one, but that's just me).

We could go with something more like a Tyrant with upgraded batteries to match one of Horizon's suggestions- S10 @ 45cm.

I will go retroactively change the Invicible BB critical damage rules as well if everyone is cool with that. I don't think the Invincible or Blasphemer should have crits inflicted on a 5+ though, like I just wrote into the chalice. THis is because the Invincible and Blasphemer suffer from other weakness too (shields equal to a cruiser rather than BB, 8 hits which is less than even a GC). BUT I did add the 5+ additional fire part.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 12:40:30 AM by Gothmog Lord of Balrogs »
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2013, 01:06:14 AM »
Chalice-class battlecruiser

Dimensions: 5.1 km long,0.8 km abeam at fins approx.
Mass: 29 megatonnes approx.
Crew: 98,200 crew, approx.
Accel: 3.4 gravities max sustainable acceleration. 

The Chalice class was a bold but not entirely successful attempt to further develop the concept of the battlecruiser. It is unique to Battlefleet Calixis, as it was designed within the Sector. The theory seemed sound: a fast heavy cruiser, with light armor and powerful weapons that could outrun and outmaneuver anything it could not immediately destroy. During the bleak middle years of the Angevin Crusade, much was made by Imperial propagandists of the new, locally manufactured “super-cruisers” planned to roll up the numerous xenos and heretic empires arrayed against the Emperor’s forces. Even though they only came into service as the crusade ended, hopes for these vessels were immense. Early Chalice-class captains were lauded as glamorous, swashbuckling adventurers in endless vox reels and data plays. Sadly, the vessels failed to live up to expectations. Two of the original Chalice class battlecruisers were destroyed during an engagement with unknown xenos forces in the Hazeroth Abyss in 123.M40, and others lost to accident or fleet engagements over the next millennia. Due to an active Inquisitorial campaign to conceal these military setbacks, these ships remain admired amongst the ignorant general Imperial public, who believe these ships are the iron core of Battlefleet Calixis. However, these sleek and beautiful warships, while fast and well armed, have a glass jaw, and a disconcerting tendency to rupture plasma conduits under sustained assault. 

Speed: 6            Maneuverability: +10
Detection: +10   Hull Integrity: 70
Armor: 19          Turret Rating: 2
Space: 75          SP: 63

Weapon Capacity: Prow 1, Port 2, Starboard 2, Dorsal 1 Battlecruiser: This ship can use “cruisers only” Components Additional Plasma Conduits: All Chalice-class battlecruisers have many heavy plasma conduits, a risky trade-off for increased power. Any plasma drive installed on a Chalice increases power generated by 4. However, every time a Chalice takes a Critical Hit, there is a 25% chance it suffers an additional Fire! Critical Hit as well.


The BFK stats, Overlord for comparison:

Overlord-class battlecruiser

Dimensions: 5.3km long,0.85 km abeam at fins approx.
Mass: 31 megatonnes approx.
Crew: 100,000 crew, approx.
Accel: 2.4 gravities max sustainable acceleration. 

A successful early illustration of how workable the battlecruiser concept can be, the Overlord is as fine an example of a pure warship as can be found. Most Rogue Traders find the ship is poorly suited to anything other than combat, as its enormous weapons systems place a colossal strain upon the plasma drive. Some Rogue Traders strip out the extensive macrobatteries, freeing up space for other Components, but others regard this as a foolish and blinkered waste of some of the most elegantly designed and lethally effective weapons systems in the galaxy. Manufactured in the vast orbital shipyards of Cypra Mundi (as well as at other shipyards in lesser numbers), the Overlord is a difficult vessel to construct, but faithful and fierce in its service to mankind. It does not waste space on massive attack craft hangers or the temperamental nova cannon. Instead, most designs use powerful long-range macrobatteries and lance turrets, backed by prow torpedo tubes. This simple, proven, and effective weaponry plays to the strengths of Imperial Navy tactics and Imperial technology. The design is an ancient but successful one, and new examples of the class are still commissioned every decade or so.   

Speed: 5            Manoeuvrability: +10
Detection: +10   Hull Integrity: 70
Armour: 20        Turret Rating: 2
Space: 78          SP: 64

Weapon Capacity: Prow 1, Port 2, Starboard 2, Dorsal 1 Battlecruiser: This ship can use “cruisers only” Components
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2013, 04:21:51 AM »
SO based on this I see two best options
Chalice as a fast & fragile overlord- keep weapons as is.
Chalice as a fast & fragile Tyrant BC- make weapons S10, R:45cm

Opinions? And still need a consensus for points. I am thinking 200 (the fragility rule really checks it down from other BCs)
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2013, 05:15:49 AM »
Considering the Mercury from Bakka is going to look a whole bunch like the Overlord (SHHHH *spoiler alert*), I think the Tyrant option is better. Mercury will have a nova and 60cm WBs, this should have torps and 45cm batteries. It would have a better niche that way.