ASC 2.0 Imperial Navy

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Okay, so now to move onto a few more designs. I am going to skip the Dreadnought and High Conveyor for now and move onto Grand Cruisers:

Goliath Class GC- 250 (IMPERIAL NAVY/CHAOS)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 3
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 3 Arc:-
Stbd LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 3 Arc:-
Port Lances- R: 60cm S:2 Arc: L
Stbd Lances- R: 60cm S: 2 Arc: R
Special Rules:  May take ABs for +5 pts.
Design Notes: Vengeance Variant

Annihilator Class GC- 290 (IMPERIAL NAVY/CHAOS)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 3
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 5 Arc:-
Stbd LB- Furies: 30cm Starhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 5 Arc:-
Special Rules:  May take ABs for +5 pts.
Design Notes: Vengeance Variant

Furious Class GC- 245 (265) (IMPERIAL NAVY)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+/6+ Front
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 14 (12) Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 14 (12) Arc: R
Dorsal Lances- R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 6 Arc- F
Design Notes: Lowered points. It is very close to the repulsive, basically 6+ Front armour, less one lance, and 45 cm lances instead of 30. Is this different enough? More importantly, are the points good. It is more expensive than the Repulsive, and the Repulsive would be the same cost if it upgraded its 3 lances to 45 cm, but would still be without the 6+ prow. This is the real life precusour to the Vengeance. Fluff wise it is post Repulsive, so I removed the ability for it to be Chaos as well.

Governor Class GC- 250
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 3
Armour: 5+
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port Lances- R: 45cm S: 4 Arc: L
Stbd Lances- R: 45cm S: 4 Arc: R
Dorsal WB- R: 60cm S: 6 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 6 Arc- F
Special Rules: For +10 pts, you may upgrade the Lances to S:6, R:30cm.
Design Notes: The only thing I think worth changing is making this IN only. Fluff wise it is one of the oldest imperial ships and the precusor to the desolator. Maybe it was a blessed design and that is why it has stayed relatively loyal, whereas when the design was messed with, that is what lead to the Desolator falling to chaos alot. I don't know, does anything else need to be changed rules wise?

Shadow of Vengeance Blackship GC- 290 (300) 300 (IMPERIAL NAVY OR INQUISITION)
Hits: 10
Speed: 25cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 6+
Turrets: 2 3
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 10 (8 ) Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 10 (8 ) Arc: R
Dorsal Bombardment Cannon- R: 30cm S: 6 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 6 Arc- F
Prow Launch Bays- Thunderhawks: 20cm Assault Boats: 30cm S: 2 Arc-
Special Rules: May be included in Imperial Fleets as if it were an Inquisitorial Cruiser. Must buy an Inquisitor Lord and select Ordo Xenos. In this case, the Inquisitor Lord MUST be on the Shadow of Vengeance. Shadow of Vengeance is equipped with Mimic Engines. Refer to Dark Eldar for Mimic Engine rules. For +30pts, you may upgrade the targetting matrix: All WB and Bombardment Cannons get a Left Col Shift.
Design Notes: Added on the newly developed Ordos and upped WB S to 10. Made it cost 15 points more, as I felt the original was overpriced, but the ordo rules are 25 pts and I did up the WB by S2. Changed since it should be INQ only. Made it so you have to take an Ordo Xenos Lord AND he must be on the Shadow. Left the WB upped to S10, made it 10 pts cheaper.

That is it for the GC for IN (and pretty much Chaos as well). Feedback/suggestions/alternative designs?

[afterimagedan]

I strongly suggest putting the Shadow of Vengeance in just the Inquisition fleet. It's an Inquisition character ship and to be able to take it without an Inquisitor seems silly.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I strongly suggest putting the Shadow of Vengeance in just the Inquisition fleet. It's an Inquisition character ship and to be able to take it without an Inquisitor seems silly.

Agreed and fixed. See the updated design notes above.

Anyone have anything else for the GCs? There are a bunch here. Really looking for most feedback on the Governor. I feel the Furious is really close to the Repulsive and is pretty good, really just there if people have an alternative model. The Annihilator and Goliath already had seperate developement threads, so I think they are set.

[Bessemer]

From what I can see the Governor, Annihilator, and Goliath seem fine! All have enough strengths without stepping on the toes of existing classes.

Agreed on the SOV being Inquisition only, and most of it's modified profile. 3rd turret?

Kind of undecided about the Furious though. You mention it being similar to the Repulsive, problem is it's a little too similar.
I always imagined it being are more defensively Balanced then the Rep. How about making the WB's fpw10 and adding a 3rd sheild. 240 pts?

And the following special rule for the Furious also...

F**k Ugly
Due to it's horrendous appearance, The opposing player may declare that the owning player place a paper bag over the Furious model to avoid any mental and emotional trauma

Seriously, THAT won a competition!?

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

I thought about a 3rd turret. I think the Mimic Engines are suppossed to be a big defensive buff, although that won't work late in the game. Would you up the points to add a 3rd turret?

As for the furious, I didn't want to remove it from the compendium, in case anyone already has one. I think making it IN only though is a great move, especially since it is Post-Repulsive fluff wise.

The Repulsive only has 2 shields and can buy a third for +15 points. To me it makes sense that maybe when designing the Furious, they added the armoured prow to save on the resources and power demands of adding a 3rd shield.
How about instead, drop the WB down to 30cm and up the FPW- makes it feel much more Imperial. In this case, I think a 3rd sheild would be in order as well. Makes it a brawler, more so than the repulsive. But this seems to be stepping on the Vengeance type hulls now.
Maybe make it have an S9 torpedo salvo. Now that is Imperial, and it is close to BBs in size (especially the F**k ugly prow )

Maybe it being similar to the Repulsive isn't bad, as it could be used without being subject to strange happenings or reserve rules. And while that may be "bad" for fleet balance/compostion, since it is unofficial, that doesn't really matter.

[Bessemer]

s9 torps!? Not sure we need to go that far But the 30cm batteries does fit with IN well though. Like you say, these are all unofficial ships, so balance isn't that much of a priority compared to BFGR and such.

I get the impression the Furious is an attempt to re-create the Repulsive with lower grade tech. I think that the proposed changes fit that.
You do make a point with adding the armoured prow to save on power consumption, so 2 shields may be the way to go. Hell, GC's were canned in favour of Battlecriusers because they weren't as effective or efficient, so tweeking can only really go so far.

As for the SOV's 3rd turret, +10 if is added. That's the usual rate when available.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

The fluff talks about making the Furious basically a repulsive with a BB prow, so S9 torps would be appropriate I think. Though I understand the hesitance to put it in. I would lower the range of the WB to 30cm though. So yay or nay? It would be the only GC with this, and would set it apart and make it unique enough to want to take IMO.

It also talked about enhanced command capabilities and upping the Firepower of Imperial Squadrons without having to commit a BB. So for the WB, what should the S be at 30cm if we go that route? Or is a mix and match option better (some 30cm range, some 45cm range)? And shoudl the command capability route be explored at all?

[Armiger84]

I'd say keep it at 6 torpedoes, I'm not comfortable setting a precedent for going over a strength 6 torpedo salvo on a cruiser hull, even if it is a grand cruiser.  But that's me.

[horizon]

I agree with that, 6 torps it should be.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Okay, S6 it is    I think S9 would have been fun and as an unofficial ship, I wasn't too worried about a precedent, but the crowd has spoken.

So what about this instead (and once this is hammered out, we can move onto Battlecruisers and Cruisers)
Furious Class GC- 230 (IMPERIAL NAVY)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+/6+ Front
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: R
Port WB- R: 30cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 30cm S: 8 Arc: R
Dorsal Lances- R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 6 Arc- F
Special Rules: For +15 points, you may buy a 3rd shield.

[AndrewChristlieb]

It looks ok, kind of a beefed up Avenger.

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

It looks ok, kind of a beefed up Avenger.

I don't really want a beefed up Avenger  I kinda see it though... Is it too close?

The BFG:R avenger though is S20 a side though. The Repulsive is S14 a side. This is S16 at the same price as the repulsive, with 1/2 of its battery at half the range of the repulsive but a 6+ front armour save (and different lances as already discussed above).

[Bessemer]

Furious Class GC- 230 (IMPERIAL NAVY)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+/6+ Front
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: R
Port WB- R: 30cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 30cm S: 8 Arc: R
Dorsal Lances- R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 6 Arc- F
Special Rules: For +15 points, you may buy a 3rd shield.

Make the 45cm batteries fpw 6 and you've got a vote!

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Furious Class GC- 230 (IMPERIAL NAVY)
Hits: 10
Speed: 20cm
Turns: 45*
Shields: 2
Armour: 5+/6+ Front
Turrets: 3
Weapons:
Port WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 45cm S: 8 Arc: R
Port WB- R: 30cm S: 8 Arc: L
Stbd WB- R: 30cm S: 8 Arc: R
Dorsal Lances- R: 45cm S: 2 Arc: L/F/R
Prow Torpedoes- Speed: 30cm S: 6 Arc- F
Special Rules: For +15 points, you may buy a 3rd shield.

Make the 45cm batteries fpw 6 and you've got a vote!

Then it has the same FP as a repulsive, but at less range, 1 less lance (granted they are 45 cm vs 30 BUT that seems to cancel out a the difference). It does have 6+ front armour though... eh. Same cost as repulsive...

Should it just get 3 lances at 30cm like the repulsive?

[Bessemer]

In retrospect, retract my last post. Didn't think it through properly, and was aiming to reduce long range firepower, in line with other IN vessels. Go with the above profile.

This is what happens when insomnia wins out! _{muggy brain...}