Which Grand Crusier to build?

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Gentlemen, a question if I may:

I've submitted my 'panic order' to games workshop in the hopes of scratching together the last bit of kit before it is condemned to obscurity.  Part of the order were two grand cruisers, one for my chaos fleet and one for my imperial fleet.

I've more or less settled on building an executor for the chaos fleet - the prospect of half a dozen lances was too much to resist.

My real conundrum is what to do with the imperial version.  My fleet is largely gun based, sporting just the one Mars cruiser and a Dictator so I know the launch bay capacity is a bit light.  I had thought of constructing either the vengeance class (read: overgrown lunar) or the avenger for ridiculous short range firepower but I'm torn as to whether I should build the carrier version instead.  230 points for four launch bays and a medium coating of 45cm firepower (and no torpedoes) seems a little expensive to me and I'm not convinced a heavily shielded bully like a grand cruiser should be a second line ship.  Then again, I've never fielded them before so its something of an unknown quantity to me.

I have thought of magnetizing the hull to facilitate changing the weapons around but I have the modelling skills of an arthritic penguin.  Let's assume that magnetizing is off the cards for the moment - which option would you suggest I go with?


Cheers,


LDTM   

[Gothmog Lord of Balrogs]

Magnetise them both and paint them kinda unique from both you chaos and IN (they are older than IN and newer than chaos likely), so you can then make them any in either fleet.

Or just paint them to match each fleet and still magnetize.

BFG:R gives it 6 LBs.

Since you are likely playing a Segmentum Obscurus fleet, you could always take the executor in you IN fleet as well as a Reserve. HOWEVER your fleet becomes subject to Stange Happenings.

[FistusMaximus]

I have thought of magnetizing the hull to facilitate changing the weapons around but I have the modelling skills of an arthritic penguin.

same here, but i found magnetizing to be kinda easy on the GC with 2x1 mm magnets and iron foil.
the iron foil goes onto the gun and LB parts, its just a thin sheet that needs to be cut in the appropriate size, no big deal really. and the magnets can just simply be stuck on the upper gun mounts without and drilling, and the lower ones just need a shallow crater drilled in for them to fit.

afterimagedan (it was him with the magnetizing tutorials, wasn't it?) stuck paperclips on the backside of the weapons parts, dunno if that works with my method of just sticking on small magnets onto the ship without any drilling tho... (he used larger magnets and hence had to do some drilling)

[afterimagedan]

Yep. Paperclips and staples. Magnetizing isn't very hard so I bet you can do it. Make a little mark in the pewter where you want the magnet and that helps your drill bit stay on target.

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Thank you, chaps.  Staples and paperclips might be easier for me to source in Japan - I wouldn't really know where to find the right foil but thank you for the suggestion.

Must download the BFG:R book and have a look - six launch bays does make better sense in my mind considering the Styx can also field six wings.  Is the points cost still the same or a little heavier?


Cheers,

LDTM

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Finally got my mits on the two grand cruisers I ordered.  I did manage to magnetize the lower decks of each one so one option gives me the Exorcist/avenger alternatives, the other provides the executor/vengeance options.  It might be callous of me but I don't really see myself using a retaliator when a Styx class is available. 

I did have a quick squizz at that magnet website over in the US (can't remember the name) but posting to Japan was going to cost 4 times as much as the product itself.  Solution: go down to Daiso (100 yen store) and source some 10mm wide by 1mm thick magnetic tape.  Got a whole meter of the stuff for less than a can of fizz.  Not bad, huh?  Depending if I can get a hold of these tiny drill-in magnets I might even be able to to the upper decks, too.

Thanks for your ideas, chaps.

Now to matters even more vexing - how to paint these two sods...    

[ehlijen]

On the note of using grand cruisers as second line support.

An IN grand cruiser does have more hits and shields than a line or battlecruiser, that's true. But it lacks the 6+ prow.

Without that, it will be the target of choice during the approach if used in the frontline. Both the Vengeance and the Excorcist are built to hang back and provide long range support. Both lack range and prow guns or armour, but both have long range weapons in their broadsides (counting launchbays as weapons here). Just like the emperor, there is nothing wrong with making them sit in the second row and take potshots till the fighting gets hot.

The Avenger is really the only one of the bunch that wants to close with the rest of the line cruisers. And most people don't like it because it's not very good at doing exactly that. (Not saying the ship is bad, but that you need a plan to overcome it's inherent design quirk to get good use out of it and not just plonk it down to 'see how it goes'.)

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Yeah, the exorcist variant will most likely be the one I use most often - my imperial navy fleet is a bit light on attack craft.  For giggles though I do like the idea of the avenger (we don't usually play competitive games), I noted in the BFG:R they upped the broadsides to 20, which I suppose is a reaction to the caveat you identify.

I think I prefer the idea of the exorcist over the dictator in the sense that I would probably be less inclined to brace, being a beefier vessel - and as you point out, second line in so its not necessarily HMS Priority Target 

I'm quite pleased I ordered the models - they were part of my panic order and despite being, ahem, "testing" to put together (something like 6 pins in each one thank-you-very-much), I think they are striking pieces.  I also rather like the fact that two dauntless classes and a grand cruiser come in sub-500

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

I didn't want to clutter up the forum with another thread so I thought I'd tack it on here:

I've since assembled my grand cruisers and magnetized them as best I can (pictures when I get to Japan).  I ended up putting magnets on the lower decks but couldn't get the upper gun decks done satisfactorily so I ended up gluing the chaos weapon battery pieces directly to the model.

Anyway, I have one grand cruiser which can morph between exorcist and avenger variants.  But...I also glued together a couple of imperial lance pieces and these can fit perfectly in the lower decks.  So, suppose I were to field a ship with the weapons batteries up top and lance decks on the bottom, I figured it would like an avenger variant that had it's lower decks swapped out after its accompanying gothic cruiser got it's tail section sheered off.  Can't let good lances go to waste can we?

Ideas:  Same price as the avenger but 30cm strength four lances left and right, as well as 30cm strength four firepower left and right.  (using the idea that lunars and gothics are the same price).  Or perhaps an extra 15-20 points for strength 8 firepower?

Any thoughts, chaps?

Cheers,


LDTM 

[Islacrusez]

For your magnet troubles, these might help: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170806449706

(late as it is)

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Thanks,  Islacrusez.  I think I might have seen similar things from the hobby stores in Akihabara so I'll scratch around and see what I can find. 
Just a quick note of curiosity; any idea how much 'grip' those puppies have?  I know Neodymium has a pretty strong field but they're mighty small (oxymoron, I know)...

[Islacrusez]

Just from playing with them it seems that they're very good at holding to each other, but not so good holding on to anything else. Haven't tried them properly yet though, so will do some testing in proper construction and get back to you.

I know someone else recommended them to me, so maybe they'll be able to advise better!

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Much obliged good sir. 

I played a couple of smaller games with the exorcist under the official rules and even though I thought that 4 wings of attack craft was a bit thin given the number of bays on the model it performed quite well.  I have to say, the model is a looker.  I can't play any BFG until I'm back home but will keep those wee magnets in mind and see if I can get a hold of some.

Cheers,


LDTM

[Zarathustra Sucuine]

I have an Exorcist and vengeance for my imperial fleet, really regret not getting on for my chaos fleet though.
I like the exorcist as it has a decent launch bay ability and a nice broadside with range, never used it due to stand issues, but I think it could work well with a gothic, using it's firepower to take down the shields, the gothic then lances.
Anyone know why they don't count towards battleships?

[Lord Duggie The Mad]

Apologies for the late reply, Zarathustra Sucuine, I've been away from the forum for a while.
I went down the same road as you, although I build an executioner for my chaos fleet (lancey goodness).

I tried out a couple of games with the 10FP broadside exorcist and was quite surprised how effective it can be. Rather impressed.

I'm not sure why they don't count towards battleships but if I had to hazard a guess I would say it may be because they are quite similar in size and the developers were trying to avoid overly 'heavy' fleets. I know that kind of goes out the window with a chaos fleet: 2 cruisers, 1 heavy, 1 grand, 1 battleship but yeah...