July 24, 2024, 11:27:54 PM

Author Topic: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design  (Read 10199 times)

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« on: May 19, 2013, 06:54:19 AM »
So in light of the discussion about the Annihilator Grand Cruiser, and out of some boredom, I designed this baby next.

MODIFIED

Goliath Class Grand Cruiser


Virtually non-existant in modern Imperial fleets, the Goliath Class is believed to have been originally designed to escort heavy gunships into battle, particularly the Avenger Class, known for its fearsome broadsides. Its unique blend of ordnance carrying capacity and fearsome lance batteries make it very adept at filling the fleet support roll, a roll which sector commands have employed it in for millenia.
One shining example of the class was the Indomitable Spirit. Serving in the vanguard of the original Sabbat Worlds Crusade, the ship is rumoured to have been blessed by the Beati, Saint Sabbat, herself. Part of the renowned Iron squadron, the Spirit and her two Avenger sister ships reaped a bloody tally during the campaign, destroying no less than five battleship and grand cruiser class vessels, as well as many other capital and escort ships. After the campaign, the vessels were left at the core of Battlefleet Erinyes, representing the power and might of the Imperium in the region. However, by late M40, the forces of Chaos had reclaimed much of the hard won worlds and were threatening the collapse of Imperial rule in multiple subsectors. In an attempt to counter the threat, Battlefleet Erinyes mustered near the edge of an area of space known as the Sanguinary Worlds, which was infested with pirates and heretical forces and the greatest source of strife in the sector. As the fleet prepared to push into the hostile region, the Indomitable Spirit opened fire on her sister ships, crippling both of them with her powerful lance batteries. As the Spirit fled into the void, waves of starhawk bombers destroyed the bridges of the two stricken vessles, ensuring no pursuit was possible and thwarting Imperial efforts of bringing control back to the region.
When Warmaster Slaydo launched his second crusade of the Sabbat Worlds, Imperial forces encountered a Goliath Class on several occassions, idetifying it as the Soul Reaper. Whether this is the traitorous Indomitable Spirit or another vessel in the service of the arch-enemy has yet to be conclusively determined.

Goliath Class Grand Cruiser- 250
Type/Hits                 Speed Turns Shields Armour Turrets
Grand Cruiser/10        20cm   45*     3        5+       3

Armament   Range/Speed          Firepower/Strength  Fire Arc
Port LB        Fighters: 30cm            3 squadrons         -
                 Bombers: 20cm
                (Assault Boats: 30cm)
Stbd LB       Fighters: 30cm            3 squadrons         -
                Bombers: 20cm
                (Assault Boats: 30cm)
Port Lances       60cm                          2                L
Stbd Lances       60cm                         2               R

Famous Ships: Indomitable Spirit, Soul Reaper, Undying Flame

For +5 points, the Goliath class may take assault boats (as listed in the profile above)

So what do you think?
How do the rules stack up? How does the fluff? The cost?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 09:08:51 PM by Gothmog Lord of Balrogs »
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4197
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2013, 07:04:25 AM »
An Excorcist variant. Having more direct gunnery but less launch bays (BFG:R), or the same.

Dunno. It can exist I assume. Point cost seem fine for a starter.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2013, 07:09:07 AM »
An Excorcist variant. Having more direct gunnery but less launch bays (BFG:R), or the same.

Dunno. It can exist I assume. Point cost seem fine for a starter.

Yeah, basically the Exorcist with lances rather than WB. Same Str LBs.
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4197
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2013, 07:26:50 AM »
Ah yes, the official Excorcist has 4 launch bays (jay).

So, for +20pts you give the vessel an equivalent of at least 8 weapon batteries more.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2013, 01:59:46 PM »
Ah yes, the official Excorcist has 4 launch bays (jay).

So, for +20pts you give the vessel an equivalent of at least 8 weapon batteries more.

Smotherman formula came up with 251 points for the ship I think

8 x 45cm WB are worth 24 points according to the formula.

I wouldn't be oppossed to bumping it up 5 to 10 points. Or maybe slap some sort of restriction on it instead?
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline Sigoroth

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 01:28:42 AM »
Don't use Smotherman formula. Ever.

Also, the top lance deck on a Vengeance gives 1L@45cmL+R per hardpoint (see Vengeance and Executor). From the Executor we can see that the bottom lance decks give 2L@30cmL+R per hardpoint. These could be "wrong" but I see no precedent to suggest it. They could be varied (ie, longer range, etc), but I see no reason to do so.

So I would give those two variants different profiles, 6AC & 2L@45cmL+R for one, 6AC, 2L@30cmL+R & 1L@45cmL+R for the other. There would presumably be a third variant with 6AC & 4L@30cmL+R.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 01:56:10 AM »
6 AC? The other ones only have 4.

And the two different pictures were solely for variety of the picture. I didn't even give thought to the different decks having different capacity.
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline Sigoroth

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 03:04:18 PM »
6 AC? The other ones only have 4.

Yes, but unlike the lances there is plenty of reason to change that.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 06:16:00 PM »
How so? I could easily add a line in the fluff that due to the reduced power demands by other weapon systems, that the lances were able to have improved power condiuts and have a larger draw, thus allowing greater range.
However, AC and LBs will always take up the same volume. It's not like they are going to find more space to put more fighters.
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2013, 09:22:33 PM »
Older ships may have more automation allowing for more capacity.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2013, 09:25:46 PM »
But this would be as old as the other Grand cruisers with a capacity of 4.
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 09:33:27 PM »
Yup makes no sense huh? Welcome to 40k.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Sigoroth

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1386
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2013, 07:41:35 AM »
How so? I could easily add a line in the fluff that due to the reduced power demands by other weapon systems, that the lances were able to have improved power condiuts and have a larger draw, thus allowing greater range.
However, AC and LBs will always take up the same volume. It's not like they are going to find more space to put more fighters.

The Dictator, Mars, Dominion & Devastation are cruisers that output 2AC per bay, having only 1 bay per side. The Emperor & Despoiler are BBs that have 2 bays per side, each outputting 2AC. The Styx is a cruiser that has 2 bays per side, each outputting 1.5AC. This suggests that you can get 2AC per bay at a cruiser level when you have only 1 hardpoint per side allocated but more than that reduces your capacity. On a BB however you can maintain 2AC per hardpoint. So why would grand cruisers, which straddle the line between battleships and cruisers get less AC per hardpoint than even the Styx? At worst they should get 1.5 per hardpoint.

For BFG:R the woeful Retaliator was fixed to go to 6AC, bringing it into balance and eliminating this disparity. The Exorcist follows suit for the sake of form rather than balance of course.

The only ship that outputs 1 AC per bay is the Defiant and this is because it's a CL and even then there was much handwringing (MUCH! If we could have easily given it 1.5 AC per bay we would have).

Therefore the 2 hardpoints per side of this ship should follow the form of all other examples out there, rather than that of the original Retaliator or Exorcist.

I would suggest leaving the lances as per the Vengeance/Executor examples.

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2013, 12:21:03 PM »
Now those are all good points. I'll change it later
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com

Offline Gothmog Lord of Balrogs

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 613
  • Lord of the Seven
    • Sepulchre of Heroes
Re: Imperial/Chaos Grand Cruiser Support Vessel Design
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2013, 10:41:25 PM »
Updated it.
"Give me a thousand men crazy enough to conquer Hell and we shall do it!"
www.sepulchreofheroes.blogspot.com
sepulchreofheroes@gmail.com