August 02, 2024, 03:15:07 AM

Author Topic: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists  (Read 5506 times)

Offline Andrew_NZ

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • Loc: New Zealand
BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« on: May 11, 2013, 05:09:11 AM »
I have trawled through a few pages of old posts and was curious about a couple of points with the current BFG:R Tau Fleet List.

(1) What was the thinking behind dropping the Explorer Mark XXIV version (4 bays and a missile salvo)?  Is the ship unbalanced for the points cost?  Felt to be too un-fluffy?  Overlooked?

(2) Earlier versions of the Tau list had restrictions about Orcas (and Wardens?) only being able to squadron up with others towed in by ships from the same parent squadron.  There seems to be no reference to this in the current BFG:R list.  There is a mention that if Wardens + Castellans are groups then nothing else can be included in the escort squadron.  As things stand I imagine I can group, for example:
(a) 4 Orcas and a Messenger
(b) 2 Defenders and an Orca

(Related) I think they previously had the same leadership as the parent squadron.  That now appears to not be the case.

(Finally) There is a limit to only four 2 hit point escorts in a squadron.  Could you add two extra 1 hit point escorts in with them to make the squadron up to the six ship limit for an escort squadron?

 

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2013, 05:37:04 AM »
I have trawled through a few pages of old posts and was curious about a couple of points with the current BFG:R Tau Fleet List.

(1) What was the thinking behind dropping the Explorer Mark XXIV version (4 bays and a missile salvo)?  Is the ship unbalanced for the points cost?  Felt to be too un-fluffy?  Overlooked?

This may have been overlooked as I dont recall a vote to drop it. It isnt a good choice imo anyway tho.

(2) Earlier versions of the Tau list had restrictions about Orcas (and Wardens?) only being able to squadron up with others towed in by ships from the same parent squadron.  There seems to be no reference to this in the current BFG:R list.  There is a mention that if Wardens + Castellans are groups then nothing else can be included in the escort squadron.  As things stand I imagine I can group, for example:
(a) 4 Orcas and a Messenger
(b) 2 Defenders and an Orca

Yup this is a pet peeve of mine too. The Wardens have never had that rule but Drows and Orcas did. Imo all three should have this same restriction.

(Related) I think they previously had the same leadership as the parent squadron.  That now appears to not be the case.

If it remains uncorrected I would say then no it is not the case and they must generate their own.

(Finally) There is a limit to only four 2 hit point escorts in a squadron.  Could you add two extra 1 hit point escorts in with them to make the squadron up to the six ship limit for an escort squadron?

Yes, in an escort squadron the maximum is 6 escorts (unless the fleet list allows for more ships) but only 4 of those may be 2 hit escorts. So you could have 4 Defenders and 2 Castellians or 4 Grunts and 6 Brutes in an Ork list (presumably that lists still wip!)

 
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2013, 06:17:17 AM »
I added the other Explorer variant to the document. Can't believe i missed that...

What parts of the current document would need to be changed to accomplish what you are talking about, Andrew?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2013, 06:27:05 AM »
The Orcas from each parent ship fight as a
squadron with the same Leadership as the
parent. They are deployed separately from their
parent however and activate different orders. If
the parent ships are squadroned together, their
Orcas may be likewise. However, the normal
squadron limit of six still applies, so you may
find it necessary to have more than one Orca
squadron associated with a capital ship
squadron. Orcas may be squadroned with other
Orcas from vessels squadroned with their parent
vessels. Orcas may not be squadroned with any
other form of escort

This is the relevant section from Armada pg 112.

Tau fleets may bring Dhows to battle on gravitic hooks instead of Orcas.
Any ship equipped with Dhows can only be equipped with Dhows and
may not have Orcas. These then form a squadron but for battle purposes
can deploy separately and perform different orders. Their Leadership is
the same as their parent ship +1 as the Nicassar are natural spacefarers

For Dhows, pg 107

This was listed as a section in the fleet list on pg 112 of armada under "squadrons". Wardens never had this restriction but that appears to have been more of an oversite because they didnt in the original FW rules that the CPF was based off of.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2013, 06:45:49 AM »
So basically the first blurb you posted should also be said of wardens?

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4197
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2013, 07:09:04 AM »
Or not.  ;)

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2013, 12:44:56 PM »
Why not tho? What makes the Warden that much different from the Orca, other than FW cannot create decent rules ::)?
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4197
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2013, 07:18:42 PM »
I meant: both not subject to that rule.


Offline Andrew_NZ

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • Loc: New Zealand
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2013, 08:55:02 PM »
My preference would be to not have the extra restrictions on the Orcas (or Wardens) pulled in by grav hook.  Two main reasons:

First you are already strongly encouraged to include the escorts due to a part of the cost already having been paid by the parent capital ship.  This already provides some restrictions.  It also ensure that the cheap ships are not spammed.

Second it further limits putting together interesting combinations of escorts.  I gather many people think that escorts are not that good compared to capital ships and further restricting their use in the Tau fleet makes them even less useful.

I don't mind a restriction on Dhows only being able to form squadrons with each other.  They are allies and operate very differently and so forth.

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4197
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2013, 09:15:15 PM »
So we agree:  :)
Wardens and Orca's may squadron as they wish, with their own leadership.

Right?
As for the Dhows: sure, that's a good idea.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2013, 03:14:31 AM »
I suppose its not unthinkable that a group attached to a capitol ship would be able to attach themselves to an escort group once theyre deployed. It would certainly make the two hook cruisers more attractive if you can take say 2 Orcas and a Defender in a squadron...
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 07:44:37 PM »
Either of you guys want to propose a write-up for the document? I just need some instruction as to what to change.

Offline Andrew_NZ

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • Loc: New Zealand
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 04:58:49 AM »
Thanks for the re-inclusion of  the Explorer Mark XXIV.

Ironically enough, given my (and Horizon's) preferences there is nothing extra that needs to be added.
The section on page 6, Tau Special Rules, that says Tau ships use the normal Leadership rules covers it all.  The point that the escort squadrons roll their own leadership rolls is a standard rule, rather than getting their parent ship's leadership? 

Perhaps a note under leadership that all escort squadrons roll for their own leadership values independent of the parent might be appropriate given the change from earlier versions.  For myself leaving the option to keep take the leadership value of the parent ship/squadron, provided only Orcas towed in by that capital ship squadron form the escort squadron, would be nice - having your cake and eating it, as it were.

The section on the Wardens specifically says they throw leadership separately from a parent ship (if that ship has grav hooks for Orcas).  Perhaps this special case implies the converse if the grav hook were for Wardens.

Castellans are explicitly able to squadron with Wardens (under some restrictions) so clearly the Wardens are able to squadron outside their parent capital ship squadron Grav hook complement.

Orcas with from a Space City are excluded from forming a squadron with any other escorts.  I would remove this restriction.  It does not apply to the Wardens that could be assigned to the same Grav Hooks.  It does seem a little harsh making the Orca pair Leadership 7, but perhaps that is "fluffy" (second line troops).  Opening them up to form a squadron with other escorts should allow them to take on the leadership of the escort group that they join.

The wording on the Dhows implies some restrictions.  I think the wording as is implies that Dhows may only form a squadron with other Dhows - although it is not crystal clear.


Offline Andrew_NZ

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • Loc: New Zealand
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2013, 05:35:04 AM »
Also, should the points values for the Leadership on the document be changed?
They were voted in the 2012 list, vote 34.  Perhaps the values  on page 27 under the Fleet commander section should be changed.

Quote
V34 - Tau Commanders and the Tau Special Character Mesme now have the following rules:
Ld 8 50pts
Ld 9 70pts
-up to 2 rerolls at 25pts each.
Mesme, same as original, 110pts.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Tau Fleet Lists
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2013, 05:46:28 AM »
They should. It slipped past me!