Adepticon Fleet Compositions

[Seahawk]

Na, you don't want to over complicate it. Simply make it so that the escorts protect the ship they are escorting, and you're good to go.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Just make it as standard (you cannot target anything except the closest ship in a squadron). This way the escorts will be protected behind the cruiser or you can throw them in front to block for the cruiser.



In this example the Torment is targeting a mixed squadron composed of the Agrippa, Iron Duke, and elements of Omega Squadron. Omega 1 is the closest ship so any hits will be allocated to it first then the Iron Duke and so on.

[RaptorEvolved]

to answer It was 1 cap shit per Escort only one with 2 squadron cap ships and  light cruiser in the mix, very effective for turret massing

[horizon]

Hey people,

write up some ideas (each what they think is best) for such rules and submit them to Warp Rift.

[Thinking Stone]

You know, Horizon, that's just what I was thinking when I looked at the Warp Rift post earlier....

Unfortunately, what I think is best is what AndrewChristlieb thinks is best . O well, at least I can put in some other ideas for people to try .

Editation: Err, how do we submit stuff to Warp Rift again? ? And also, have there been any BFG:R revisions to squadron rules? The discussion had by Sigoroth et al. was quite thorough but didn't seem to come to a consensus: http://www.forum.specialist-arms.com/index.php?topic=2807.0

[horizon]

Hi,
you can mail it at horizon@epic40k.co.uk or warprift@epic40k.co.uk.

Warp Rift needs all kind of articles.

[fracas]

Mixed squadron is a good idea.
I would still limit it to a total of six ships max though.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ive been thinking a bit on that actually and I think that allowing each cruiser to take 2 escorts with cruisers escorts forming their own squadron that takes the place of one cruiser. So you would have the option to take a cruiser squadron with 1 cruiser and 0-2 escorts, 2 cruisers and 0-4 escorts, or 3 cruisers and 0-6 escorts. For battleships and grand cruisers you can take 3 escorts with the same restrictions. So 1 BB or CG and 0-3 escorts or 2 BB or CG and 0-6 escorts.

[Brethren]

A lot of very interesting and very tempting ideas. I like this thread.

"Massing Shields" is a somewhat neat idea, but occationally could result in a lot of frustration, since it will become highly difficult to damage a battleship. Additionally when you consider 2-shield-Escorts... I don't want to break through 8 shields to get to a battleship.
(Note to the curious: Rogue Trader document -> Xenos Vessel -> +1 shield upgrade)

[Mallich]

Additionally when you consider 2-shield-Escorts... I don't want to break through 8 shields to get to a battleship.
(Note to the curious: Rogue Trader document -> Xenos Vessel -> +1 shield upgrade)

Nicassar Dhows also have 2 shields, as do Defence Monitors and Q-ships. Non-kraken tyranid bioships can also be upgraded with extra spores (shields/turrets).

[RaptorEvolved]

Additionally when you consider 2-shield-Escorts... I don't want to break through 8 shields to get to a battleship.
(Note to the curious: Rogue Trader document -> Xenos Vessel -> +1 shield upgrade)

Nicassar Dhows also have 2 shields, as do Defence Monitors and Q-ships. Non-kraken tyranid bioships can also be upgraded with extra spores (shields/turrets).

Great observation , and honestly I wouldn't either, but that's what escorts are made to do

[Brethren]

Hello again.

I got to consult my BFG-buddy. The basic idea of mixing ships squadrons with escorts is still great. But we figured out some details that are worth looking into.

Basically it's about "Shooting at Squadrons" and the "Gunnery Table".

Current rule details:

• If ships of a squadron are in different columns of the Gunnery Table the shooting party can decide which column to take, but no hits will be allocated to a ship that is "harder to hit".
  
  
  Problem:
  
  • Since escorts and capital ships are rarely in the same coloum, you can't shield a cruiser effectively with the current rules.
    
  
  
  Possible Solution:
  
  • "Escort ships count capital ships on the Gunnery Table, as long as they accompany a capital ship."
    Escorts are harder to hit, because of their size, speed and maneuverability. But around big ships they actually have to throttle down, losing this advantage. So in a way this addition to the rules is fluffwise logical, intentionally effective and simple to use. Plus it has little effect if escorts are hiding behind a capital ship.
    
  
  
• Different Armour values. All dice that beat the lowest armour value will score hits. Each die will hit the nearest vessel it can affect.
  
  
  Note:
  
  • Now here's the "little effect" I was talking about. Escorts with a different armour value can get hit even when hiding behind bigger buddys. This is consistent to original rules, as capital ships squadrons face the same problem. But without the rule change mentioned above, they would be harder to hit because you would normally have to take the escort coloum on the Gunnery Table.
    I don't think this is much of a deal, though. Choose your mixed squads well and try to place escorts abeam to minimize this drawback. Still I wanted to point it out. Maybe someone has to say something about it.
    

I'm kind of exited about this. It doesn't only "feel right", but in addition it promises interesting new fleet compositions, ship pairing and movement tactics to use or counter mixed squadrons.

Have a nice day,

Brethren.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Well to be fair the squadron rules are pretty bad to begin with. Why would a shot that cannot damage one ship go to the next ship that it can damage? What did they see the shot wasnt going to damage the ship so they swung the guns mid salvo? That just doesnt make sense. They should only be able to target the closest ship unless using a leadership test.

[Brethren]

Well to be fair the squadron rules are pretty bad to begin with. Why would a shot that cannot damage one ship go to the next ship that it can damage? What did they see the shot wasnt going to damage the ship so they swung the guns mid salvo? That just doesnt make sense. They should only be able to target the closest ship unless using a leadership test.

I tend to picture that when firing one takes the whole squadron unter fire and not just the leading vessel. And if a salvo manages to crack through "light armour" it might not touch the ship in front, but the ships in the back. (In this case it is rather strange, that you can only hit the leading ship.)

I agree that squadron rules, as with some other BFG rules feel a bit awkward. But coming up with something entirely new isn't my intention here. I rather want to fit mixed squads into the existing rules.
If I'd want to get rid of all the BFG inconveniences I'd use another rule set, like Full Thrust. I'm certainly not willing to invent the wheel again. This is a hobby, not my life's work.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I see what your saying but given the scale here is it reaslly feasable to say theyre shooting at the entire squadron? and if thats the case why are the shots not divided between the ships? It seems the only reason the rules are written this way is so that escorts are not as difficult to kill, it would really be a pita to have to kill each escort individually or try and split fire between them when shooting etc..