Real Legion Flagships

[starfox1701]

By now it should be pretty clear the all the Legions had access to some warships that where orders of magnitudes more powerful then anything in BFG. Are there any plans for doing any of them? And for the record I'm not referring to the handful of lame ones that GW tried to trot out that where merely conversion of BFG hulls, but ships like Macragge's Honour which was 26km long or the Glorianas like the Conqueror, Fedelitas Lex, Invincible Reason, and Night Fall.

[Seahawk]

It's incredibly hard to do the Fist of Macragge because it's a "Lunar class battleship" that's way too big. Everything's jumbled up.

Otherwise, a good starting point for the aesthetic design is to use the cards from the Horus Heresy card game. It has the majority of the ships you mention (and they're mostly the same size as modern ships).

[starfox1701]

Where does the tying of the Luna class Battleship to Fist of Macragge come from because it is not in Know no Fear. Second you cant judge scale in any of the pics of ships from HH collected visions so saying the rest are within scale of M41 is a statement without any basis in fact.  Try again.

[afterimagedan]

No, there are no plans of "doing them" unless you want to take a crack at it. And Seahawk has a point. If you want more responses, try being polite.

[horizon]

Give it a shot I say.

[starfox1701]

No, there are no plans of "doing them" unless you want to take a crack at it. And Seahawk has a point. If you want more responses, try being polite.

I was not being impolite afterimagedan. I might have been a bit blunt as the tongue in cheek nature of my response was obviously lost. So with that explanation out of the way please explain the Seahawk's point as I appear to have missed it.

Also I see I made an error and got the wrong 13th Legion ship, It is Macragge's Honour, Not the Fist of Macragge. I fixed the opening post.

[afterimagedan]

If seahawk feels like it, he can.

[Seahawk]

Where does the tying of the Luna class Battleship to Fist of Macragge come from because it is not in Know no Fear. Second you cant judge scale in any of the pics of ships from HH collected visions so saying the rest are within scale of M41 is a statement without any basis in fact.  Try again.

Lunar-class. The information is in The Battle for the Abyss. It was also destroyed in that book.

No, you can't judge scale, but that's not the point I made at all. I was saying that you can at least make a good design based off of what's already been produced. For instance, the Conqueror looks to have engines, lower aft hull, and prow similar to modern Imperial ships, but a unique central hull and a Chaos upper after hull area. Macragge's Honor looks to be something like a modified and Ultramarines-stylized Emperor-class battleship, with the launch bays replaced by gun batteries.

The point is, you have a picture to go on. They have some sense of scale to work with, but most importantly they already have a ready-to-go design.


As to being polite, no, you weren't. You rejected the first most helpful suggestion available in a snarky manner. Remember, the internet is the worst possible medium to try and use your version of tongue-in-cheek comments, as it will never come off the way you envision it.

[AndrewChristlieb]

If you want to come up with some stats for a ship like that ok, but the problem with something thats so much larger than standard is that its hard to fit them into basic scenarios. They ususally work best with a scenario tailored to them.

That said Ive not seen anything to indicate that the Gloriana class is any bigger than a standard battleship and I think the "Chaos Battlebarge" entry is more than adaquate to cover most of the sips you've listed. Im not too familiar with the Macragge's Honour but I would be wary of any sizes from the novels as they vary quite a bit and are far off from the standard. The Furious Abyss or the Eternal Crusader would be good examples of the Idea your going for imo. The FA was noted for being much larger than an Emperor class "The vessel was a unique configuration within the Imperium at the time and were quite large with even Emperor Class Battleships being dwarfed by these massive vessels." and the EC is the chapter home of the Black Templars and is noted as being about twice the size of most battlebarges, has docking facilities for escorts, and its been theorized that is can even dock a strike cruiser for refits and repairs (cant find the freaking documents on that now tho of course ). Even these tho I wouldnt push past 20 hits and I would keep the weapons down to a reasonable level, maybe 1.5 times that of a standard battleships.

Now if you want something stupidly sized take a look at the IF Phalanx o_O now thats a real monster .

[starfox1701]

Where does the tying of the Luna class Battleship to Fist of Macragge come from because it is not in Know no Fear. Second you cant judge scale in any of the pics of ships from HH collected visions so saying the rest are within scale of M41 is a statement without any basis in fact.  Try again.

Lunar-class. The information is in The Battle for the Abyss. It was also destroyed in that book.

No, you can't judge scale, but that's not the point I made at all. I was saying that you can at least make a good design based off of what's already been produced. For instance, the Conqueror looks to have engines, lower aft hull, and prow similar to modern Imperial ships, but a unique central hull and a Chaos upper after hull area. Macragge's Honor looks to be something like a modified and Ultramarines-stylized Emperor-class battleship, with the launch bays replaced by gun batteries.

The point is, you have a picture to go on. They have some sense of scale to work with, but most importantly they already have a ready-to-go design.

While I see the you point I must point out that you logic is flawed by a foundational assumption. You are assuming that just because a structure in a pic appears to be proportional to components you recognize on known models that it is proportional but the pics in question don't actually prove that.

First lets look at Macragge's Honour
http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/BL/blog/2012/11/ship-small.jpg
In the pic I linked in you can see 2 FW type Weapons Battery platforms to the right in close to the ship. This shows the scope and scale of the ship to be in keeping with the 26km length given in Know no Fear.

For the Glorianas the situation is not quite as clear cut despite the fact we actually know more about them then we do Macragge's Honour. There is only 1 definite Gloriana pic in collected visions. It shows the Conqueror, Flagship of the XII Legion. However there are no other objects of known dimension in the pic. I want to go on but first I want to make sure its ok to list spoilers from Betrayer first.

[horizon]

With that picture I can't see it being that big given the size of the Marines. Or the perspective is just badly drawn....

[starfox1701]

ignore the Marines, they are in the foreground. The background contains 2 objects of known size; the weapons platforms. You use them to scale the ship image.

[afterimagedan]

Second you cant judge scale in any of the pics of ships from HH collected visions so saying the rest are within scale of M41 is a statement without any basis in fact.  Try again.

The background contains 2 objects of known size; the weapons platforms. You use them to scale the ship image.

I'm confused.

[Khar]

I tried to recreate some ships from BL novels once, and I warn you, that way lies madness
BL author tend to completely disregard any estabilished material when it comes to their spaceships. It's sometimes so full of contradictions you might as well just write your own rules without any reference and it would be just as accurate as any else.

Lunar class battleship mentioned before is a good example. So... is it a battleship, or Lunar class cruiser? We'll never know.

[starfox1701]

Second you cant judge scale in any of the pics of ships from HH collected visions so saying the rest are within scale of M41 is a statement without any basis in fact.  Try again.

The background contains 2 objects of known size; the weapons platforms. You use them to scale the ship image.

I'm confused.

By what exactly?

I tried to recreate some ships from BL novels once, and I warn you, that way lies madness
BL author tend to completely disregard any established material when it comes to their spaceships. It's sometimes so full of contradictions you might as well just write your own rules without any reference and it would be just as accurate as any else.

Lunar class battleship mentioned before is a good example. So... is it a battleship, or Lunar class cruiser? We'll never know.

The BFG rule book notes that the Luna Class Cruiser is a product of the M36 therefore it is so unlikely that the Luna Class Battleship is the same class as the cruiser to be a near certainty that they are different classes. On the note of gleaning details from books it should be noted that the HH books contain new ship classes so there is no fluff to ignore. Also Aaron Dembski-Bowden, the author that has best described the Gloriana is a member of the community and works very hard to be consistent in his information.