BFG:R Orks

[Khar]

quick update - limited computer access is delaying me a bit. Still, i'll post the list soon.

[Markconz]

Hi just looking at the version 3 list, hopefully the final pdf will also include the fighta bomba rules?

[Gun_wun]

Hey Khar, any word on the Ork document?  Da boyz are waiting and getting a little restless and therefore harder to control!

[blekinge]

Hi

Just bumping the thread. It would be nice to get the finished Ork document soon. Khar, thanks for your work. If you feel you cannot complete the project, just post what you have, and I will try to make a final document.

[Khar]

Aaaand, hello again. My computer problems turned out to be a bit more serious business than I anticipated, leaving me with limited possibilities of continuing my work, or even warning about further delays... HOWEVER! All is settled now, and I am, in fact, presenting nearly finished Ork document.

Previous Ork document was bashed together from several different pdfs in truly orky fashion, so after few tries in modyfying it, I just remade it from scratch. Yeah, graphics may look a little less fancy, but at least it's readable now. [some flavour texts  were saved as image data and I didn't yet have time to retype them...]

As for now, It's fully usable, only thing missing are some fluff and pictures, so, in general, we're more or less set.

Attached - Nearly finished Ork pdf with full rules. I'd say it's still open to suggestions, but seeing as it was mostly built upon your suggestions in the first place, I hope we can just finalize the thing and call it a day.

Was a pleasure working with you all.

-still terrible with deadlines, Khar

[jaggedtoothgrin]

Ok, all looks pretty good to me, very schmick:

Firstly, KillKroozas, Terrorships, and Bashas all have specific rules on their Kustom Force Fields that says they're rolled at the beginning of turn, instead of the normal rule of "when they first need to know how many fields they have"
Is that intentional? I assume it's a vestigial holdover from previous editions

Secondly, the Basha's special notes are all in bold as well as italics

Thirdly, it doesnt say that the rerolls purchased are not "smack them to make them behave" rerolls, but regular ones that can be used by other ships in the fleet

Fourthly, can looted ships take characters and character upgrades?

Fifthly, the Bad Moon klan rule for escorts should probably include the "cannot reroll the same weapon with more dakka" bit from the capital ship version of the rules

Sixthly, Looted ships, should they lose their nova cannon entirely, or should it be downgraded to a bombardment cannon?

Finally: Hard Limits. why are Nobs a 0-5 in total? should that be 0-5 per 500 or 1000 points? It seems stange that at the 3000 point fleet size, I can have more warbosses in my fleet than nobz. Everything else is good and scales with number of cruisers and/or points, but it seems a strange set. especially since Nobz are not terribly good, doubly so now that the "hit other ships within 15cm to make them behave" option is no longer there. Should the "hit other ships" rule be there? the looted ships rule got adopted properly.


some questions:

Nobz in a escort squadron. Assuming, and this is in no way a hypothetical idea, that I was building a squadron of 6 Bad Moon Ravagers, one gets a nob, that nob would take grot riggers.
Now, so long as the nob is alive, i get the +1LD to reload the ordinance for the entire formation. no other character upgrade effects the entire squadron. Not a complaint, just a comment.

However, If I fail my leadership, I perform a hit and run attack against myself. Do I have to allocate that to the ship with the Nob, or can I execute another escort in the squadron? It seems pretty rough to pay 20 points for a reroll that also has a 5 in 6 change of destroying a 60 point ship (75 with riggers) regardless of success. (does result in an interesting "take some brutes so I can execute those instead of ravagers" strategy, but makes using rerolls on escorts basically a "never happening" thing. certainly its hard to justify buying a nob for the reroll, which means you're paying 20 for the privledge of buying a character upgrade)


If I get a free ship, it follow the "have to take same upgrades" rule, and thus, would come with the same upgrades as the ship I purchased of that type, right?

[blekinge]

Hi

Thanks Khar. First, concrats on finally finishing the thing. It is good enough to be used for now. Many of the issues JaggedTooth raises should probably be detailed. The Nob on Escort really needs a note saying that one escort of the squadron takes the hit.


I have a few nitpickings.
The deathdealer have armour 6+front/. I expect you meant 6+front/5+
All the battleships and battlecruiserss lists their launch capacity as Fighta-Bommerz: 25cm D3+1. The D3+1 belongs in the next column.
The Terror ship table have weird placement of text. Speed, Shields and Turrets should be centered.

The Ravager was increased to 25cm move. Did we agree to that? It seems fair, but now the Onslaught is the only slow escort, as the brute ram ship have 25 cm natively, and the savage gunship have soopa boosters as standard.

The Space hulk increased from 600 to 610. I do not care, but what was changed to make it more expensive?
Space hulk extra turrets use the funny expression
Extra turrets allow Space Hulk’s Turrets to hit on 4+, instead of 4+.

Normal Warbosses (the only character in the official rules) start out with one reroll. There is no such mention in your document. But Characters get the "bosspole" rule
Ship carrying an Ork character may attempt to re-roll any failed Ld test. By doing so, it automatically inflicts one  hit&run attack against itself.

Is this the intent. I quite like it, as having 9 rerolls in a fleet was somewhat excessive before.

[Khar]

Yay, thanks for the feedback, now some answers -

KFF rules are an oversight, those from the beginning of the document are the current ones. I'll fix that in final version.

Basha - missed that, will fix.

Re-rols - must've missed pasting this bit. Will be fixed.

Looted ships - I'd say, why not. Given that it only allows cruisers, there's not much potential for broken combos.

Hard limits - Haven't thought of that. Other fleets' secondary characters seem to be mostly limited that way, but they usually also have more limited primary characters. I think changing it to 1/250 seem reasonable. Two nobs for every big character.

And the matter of Nobs and re-rolls - Hitting other ships should be there, It seems i have missed it. I tested it a bit in the meantime and it's not overly strong - the risk involved usually made me think twice before re-rolling.

As for the Bad Moon Ravagers - yup, Riggers affect entire squadron. Also, the chance of explosion is a bit smaler, If I recall correctly, FAQ 2010 made hit&run against escorts succeed only on 4+.
Also, to clarify, there's one more upgrade that affects more than one escort - boarding parties. Only one boarding roll is made when multiple ships participate, so +1 bonus is global here. Good for Grunts actually. I tested it, they took down a cruiser in one go.

As for targetting another escort in squadron, I think we'll have to allow it. While destroying another ship flying close is very fitting for Orks, Nob spontaneously exploding his own ship might be a bit much. True that it may create institution of sacrificial brute [I'd take grunt, though. It can take two hits ], but it's still losing a ship to a re-roll. (return of hit&running other ships in 15cm kinda solves it, though.) Opinions on this?


AAAnd reply for blekinge, who responded while I was typing this

I'll fix all the editing problems you mentioned, thanks for pointing them out.

Space hulk got standard Heavy Gunz range upgrade to 30, like the entire fleet.

Yup, base re-roll is gone, replaced by boss-poling.

As for Onslaught, if i recall correctly, it was to balance getting L/F/R gun. You can still pay to make it speed 25 if you want, though. [Or even 30 if it's Evil Sun.]

[blekinge]

Hi Khar

As for the Onslaught, I did not consider the speed a real problem. I just like to double check the stats as they can be very prone to copy/paste errors. When you feel the time is right, I could go through the document and make list of changes from the official document. This could probably be a good addendum to show old time players who are familiar with the official rules.

As for "Bosspoling" another ship, this should probably only be an option for escort squadrons, or at least when the character is on an escort.
15cm limit, or just "in formation" could work, but the nob cannot teleport 60cm across space to bash an out-of-formation ship. One could also go with randomised ship in squadron. So the nob could end up bashing himself, but probably wont. "A randomly selected ship in formation with the character's ship suffers a Hit&Run."

I really love the first statement in the doc

Orks ships are often ill-kempt, unreliable rust buckets kept in operation only by the constant efforts of mekboyz and their gretchin slaves. Ork vessels use all the normal rules for fleers except where stated here.

Aside from the "fleers" spelling, this is a subtle way to stick it to the other fleets. I always read it as

Orks ships are often ill-kempt, unreliable rust buckets kept in operation only by the constant efforts of mekboyz and their gretchin slaves. As such, they are not to different from the ships of the Imperium and Ork vessels use all the normal rules for fleets except where stated here.

[blekinge]

Hi

Slow day at work, so I decided to go through the orks for spelling errors....

This is not to disrespect your work. This is only to make the document even better.

I noticed a not-quite-a-spelling error. Orks now get +1 to boarding value. We used to get +1 to boarding. Is this to compensate for the Goff clan and the mega armoured nobs? Or just an oversight and should be boarding roll or just boarding?

Brace for Impact works normally
against attacks by Klaws.Each

Missing space before Each

ORK CHARACTERS
Orks have a variery of

Should be variety

BigMek

Space between Big and Mek

Klan upgrade table

Evil Sunz: +5 cm speed +10

should be +10 pts.
Same with about half the entries on that table



Bombers....
Is spelled as Bommas, Bommaz, bommers, Bommerz and even Bommerzs
Search/replace to one spelling

The terror ship entry:
Search for " thc ", it is found at least once and is a common OCR error.
 resllpply  -> resupply

Ravager entry:
"Ravagers mount a vast number of torpedo racks and when they suca:ed "
-> Succeed

Brute entry:
"manoeuvring" and "manoeuvre"
Should be manouevring and manouevre

Fleet list section
FleetCommander. Missing space.

The Kaptain is also spelled as Kapitan in places

[Khar]

Ok, so, as for now it looks like that:

Characters can either bosspole their own ship, or ship in 15 cm. If it's from different Klan, hit&run is with +1 modifier.
In case of bosspoling escort ships, I'd do it like that: hit&run hits random ship in squadron within 15 cm of the character himself. If character is on the ship belonging to a squadron, he too can be randomly whacked. It will help with taking sacrificial Brutes, and make Nob in escort squadron a viable option to give them more or less reliable leadership.

Large Bad Moon Ravager squadron +Nob with riggers grows to be a powerful [though expensive] option.
Same for Goff Grunts with mega boarding parties.

Orks still have +1 to boarding, I was sure I already corrected this

Thanks for finding all this errors, it's hard to find all this when you put the text together yourself, especially with this amount of copypasting. I really appreciate it.

[blekinge]

Characters can either bosspole their own ship, or ship in 15 cm. If it's from different Klan, hit&run is with +1 modifier.
In case of bosspoling escort ships, I'd do it like that: hit&run hits random ship in squadron within 15 cm of the character himself. If character is on the ship belonging to a squadron, he too can be randomly whacked. It will help with taking sacrificial Brutes, and make Nob in escort squadron a viable option to give them more or less reliable leadership.

I would like this to be "their own ship or a ship that is part of the same squadron and within 15cm". I do not think, but haven't checked, that different clans cannot be part of the same squadron, so the cross-clan hit&run bonus seems redundant.

I tried to make some fleets using the Ork list. I have not playtested it yet, but this will probably be done within two weeks, or even sooner if I can find the time this weekend. My conclusion so far is that that Nobs are really powerful (this is not a bad thing per se). Where the old ork fleet usually took 3 Warbosses (or any characters), I would probably just take one now and lots of Nobs. A Nob with Grot Riggers is mandatory if you play with Terror Ships. If you have a few, probably one of them will roll high-ish LD. The Nob will take that ship, improve the LD (only for reloading) and give them an "free" reroll.
I will have to try it, but fleet rerolls seems a lot less important now. Ork LD is bad, but clever use of Nobs and squadroning will help a lot with that.

Large Bad Moon Ravager squadron +Nob with riggers grows to be a powerful [though expensive] option.
Same for Goff Grunts with mega boarding parties.

The Goff Grunts do not really need the Mega Armour boarding parties. Being Goff means +1 boarding and +1 LD to ram. The Mega Armour would only work on the Nob's ship, not on every ship in the squadron.
Still, Goffs make good crew on Ramships and Grunt troopships.
Ramships with rams (not really cheap) would make 1D6 LD checks to ram a cruiser, and cause a minimum of one hit per ship, along with 4D6 attacks per ship. That's a crippled cruiser right there.

Orks still have +1 to boarding, I was sure I already corrected this

You did in the old document, but the error crept back into the new prettier document.

[blekinge]

Hi

Checking in again.

Have anyone had a chance to playtest the new orks? I have not, but I am working on getting my two usual gaming buddies (back) into Gothic. I thing I am close to success, so hopefully I will have real data soon.

[Gun_wun]

I haven’t contributed to this project so I really shouldn’t be asking, but how is it going?  Ok, Da Truf Den…….  We’z go-in TA-DA Fight Tomorrow, SEE.  Me Bozy could use It.  Gotz a Bunch of GOFFs We’z gonna Board dem Wiff anyhow… Be-in Blood Axe n ALL dey Neva gonna see it comminnnnnn Anyway.  Aavan more ship fer da teef makes da Plan even BIGGA! 

[Blindhorizon]

I recently played a game of BFG and one of the opponents of the ork's was saying that all those brutes having two turrets seems a little overpowered. Having had 3 brutes take out 6 of my torpedoes at one time did kind of suck. But i was wondering, has anyone considered instead of giving them an additional turret, you could add more dakka to their current turrets allowing their turrets to hit on a 3+ for all ordinance, and a 5+ on eldar ordinance?

Just a thought, i am new to the game, sorry if i stepped on any toes.

Blind-