July 31, 2024, 05:31:29 AM

Author Topic: BFG:R Orks  (Read 46384 times)

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2013, 05:08:01 AM »
Kill kroozers definantly need something to make them more attractive compared to the Terror. Generally I agree with your views here.
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Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2013, 12:43:52 PM »
I'd consider making some of ork ships' port/starboard weapons l/f + r/f. Needs further testing, though.
Interesting idea. I just thought they would need a stronger broadside firepower... but that could do it as well.
The heavy guns should still be locked to one arc, though.

Offline Khar

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2013, 12:39:19 PM »
while building some Ork ships, I've been thinking. And it was, in fact, somewhat productive.

First of all - Orks need rebuilding. Not just tweaks, like imperial fleet, but more like Tyranid level of changes. Now they simply don't work in many cases.

So, first thing I thought about - some randomness needs to go. I'd remove all the random firepower from Gun batteries. Every single d6 should be changed to 4, to give them respectable firepower. So d6+6 becomes 10, d6+2 becomes 6, and so on. However, to ensure they're not used as reliable mid-range firepower, I'd add rule like this:

'Ork weapons, while efficient, lack sophisticated targetting devices or, in many cases, any targetting at all. When firing over 30cm range they always use Ordnance column' - So Ork has to come close to be truly effective but doesn't risk that single '1' when determining his firepower makes ship useless for a turn.

Second thing: Torpedoes. I'd do the same thing here - every d6 becomes 4.
To balance this: 'Ork torpedos tend to be short on fuel, while their targetting sensors (consisting mostly of panicked Grot crew) are prone to failure. At the end of Ordnance Phase, reduce strength of any Ork torpedo salvo on table by d3. Additionally, squadroned Orks ships can't combine their salvos.'

Reasoning? Again - to force them to work at short ranges while adding some reliability. Savage with 4 torpedos guaranteed might sound scary, but not more scary than imperial Viper with 3 not breaking down in time with ability to combine salvos.

Third thing: How to make Orks more resilient to bomber attcaks while not making them more resistant to other ordnance? I'd do it like this:
'Ramshackle: Each Ork vessel is unique. No two share the same design and their systems seem, even to a trained eye, placed at random. While this doesn't change much when blasting such vessel to pieces, it makes precise application of firepower nigh impossible - what's left is to pray that some shots will hit something important. Ork vessels count as having 2 more turrets (up to maximum of 6) while determining number of bomber attacks against them.'

Simple. Bombers still hit on 4+, Turrets still kill only a few, but they deal less attacks than they should due to simply not nowing what to destroy in their run. Same rule might make hit&run attacks against them harder, or lance fire, for the same reason, but I'm not sure they need it.

Next thing: Remember Ram Prow upgrade from 2010 Ork Klanz? Every Ork capital ship should have this automatically. Orks should ram, and players need to find that option attractive ;)

Also, Orks should Board. +1 boarding value from Revised is weak, +1 to boarding roll would be more like it.

That's it for now, I return to testing. ;)

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2013, 03:54:10 PM »
I like a lot of your ideas Khar, but I would have a hard time getting rid of randomness into their weapons altogether, though I do support Some of it. Also, on the torpedo idea, maybe it could be just like the tau torpedo rule where you roll a die for each torp and on a 6 a torp goes away. It would keep some consistency. Also, the shooting over 45cm rule will necessitate a point decrease on vessels with 45cm batteries, probably a small one.

Khat, you say some randomness needs to go, but what randomness other than the regular game randomness would you keep? I favor decreasing some of these random weapons because of the dice rolling involved. Personally, I would just make ordnance random and make guns a set value.

Offline Khar

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2013, 04:38:08 PM »
I'd leave random launch bays, for sure. Random torpedos... maybe. In some cases, at least. But d6 shouldn't decide on strength of anything. d3+2, or d3+3... that I can live with. Even if you roll 1, you do something.

As for gunz with 45 range - yep, some point adjustments are necessary. Lots of them, actually. ;)

Torps - Tau method would make them burn out slower. We'd have to see how that works out.

Offline Mallich

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2013, 05:18:50 PM »
Randomness doesn't just come from the "D6" strength of the basic gunz. The "1 impact does 2 points of damage" for the heavy gunz creates a broader probability distribution in vanilla BFG than if there were twice the number of dice being rolled with each hit doing 1 damage.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2013, 06:46:31 PM »
I'm fine with the heavy guns how they are because you can at least know the weapon strength.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2013, 07:44:37 PM »
Ok so for the base cruiser I think something like this would work well.

Ork Kill Kroozer . . . . . . . . . . . .  160 pts

Type/Hits  Speed  Turns  Shields    Armor    Turrets
Cruiser/10  20cm   45*      1       6+/5+/4+    d3

Armament   Range/Speed   Firepower/Str   Fire Arc
PortH.Gunz*      30cm                  4            Left
Port Gunz          30cm                  4            Left
StarH.Gunz*      30cm                  4            Right
Star Gunz          30cm                  4            Right
ProwH.Gunz*     30cm                  6            Front
Prow Gunz         45cm                  6            Front

Notes: An Ork Kill Kroozer may be equiped with a prow power ram for +5 pts and may replace its prow heavy gunz battery with a torpedo launcha (Ork torpedoes and Ork boarding torpedoes*, Strength 6) at no extra points cost. Ork Kill Kroozers may upgrade their shields from one to two for +15 pts and upgrade their turret rating to d3+1 for +5 pts.

*Ork torpedoes and Ork boarding torpedoes function the same as their standard counterparts, but due to their poor construction have a tendancy to detonate prematurely. For each salvo of Ork torpedoes or boarding torpedoes roll a d6 for each salvo after they have moved and made any attacks - on a roll of 6 the torpedoes detonate and are replaced with a blast marker.

*Ork Heavy Gunz roll to hit like ordinary weapons batteries but do not count gunnery modifiers for range. If fired over 15cm Ork Heavy Gunz will only hit on a d6 roll of 6. Each hit scored by heavy gunz causes double damage, ie, two hits instead of one.

I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Markconz

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2013, 10:54:25 PM »
While some of these ideas have merit, I dislike the idea of discarding the random guns and torpedoes. Orks are not supposed to be reliable, and this is a great part of the character of an ork fleet IMHO.  I also like the fact that the opponent is uncertain about the threat an ork ship poses until it opens fire.

D3 turrets is a nice idea to give ork kroozers a bit more resilience (and randomness).

Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2013, 11:24:02 PM »
We should definitely keep random Ordnance for Orks!

I do like the above rule for torpedoes, but to add some extra Orkiness (that even a word?) how about making them an extra 5-10 speed to represent the atypical massive rockets Orks  usually put on stuff?
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2013, 02:26:50 AM »
+10cm speed on the torpedoes with the destroyed after moving on a 6+ would make them exactly like short burn torpedoes which would be fine by me.

Random Attack craft is still a solid choice but the randon gunz is the one of the worst parts of the fleet, if the gunz remain random their minimum firepower needs to be seriously boosted, anything less than 3 is worthless. The modified gunz stats from Plaxor's work would be a place to start.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Nex

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2013, 08:22:13 AM »
Well there are other ways to make Orks random/unreliable over the random shot number.

Just throwing ideas out you could have either a straight roll or leadership test when shooting to see if there's an accident or the gun crew are too busy fighting themselves. Or perhaps some kind of mishap/random event table that can give slight bonuses or penalties, a mek boy decided to throw a strange barrel he found into the engine and it gives the ship a speed boost, the grots on a gun deck go on strike over bad pay so the guns fire at half strength that time...

I do agree that to really get an Ork fleet that FEELS Orky they kinda need rebuilt from the ground up, currently they feel a bit like a slightly less organised Imperial fleet in terms of basic design. I would rather see something more along the lines of the Tyranid model, with a basic hull and then a list of weapons, hull upgrades and perhaps even downgrades to choose from.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2013, 07:08:14 PM »
Ok, hopefully the SG line being cancelled isn't scaring everyone away!

Changes so far:
Torpedoes -> Short Burn Torpedoes
Gunz now not random
Torpedoes -> half random (D3+3 sort of thing)
Launch Bays -> random still.
Turrets -> Random
Heavy Gunz -> stay the same

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2013, 07:13:20 PM »
Well the one change I would make to that list is to make the heavy gunz 30cm as I stated earlier:

*Ork Heavy Gunz roll to hit like ordinary weapons batteries but do not count gunnery modifiers for range. If fired over 15cm Ork Heavy Gunz will only hit on a d6 roll of 6. Each hit scored by heavy gunz causes double damage, ie, two hits instead of one.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Orks
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2013, 07:18:19 PM »
Changes so far:
Torpedoes -> Short Burn Torpedoes
Gunz now not random
Torpedoes -> half random (D3+3 sort of thing)
Launch Bays -> random still.
Turrets -> Random
Heavy Gunz -> "Ork Heavy Gunz roll to hit like ordinary weapons batteries but do not count gunnery modifiers for range. If fired over 15cm Ork Heavy Gunz will only hit on a d6 roll of 6. Each hit scored by heavy gunz causes double damage, ie, two hits instead of one."