BFG:R Orks

[Khar]

I'm not usually a fan of Smothermans' so I'm genuinely surprised how good it all seems to fit...

As for the Hammer - You might have a point here, it might need a bit more price drop when compared to Kroolboy. But there's one thing Hammer has that Kroolboy hasn't - it's not a unique vessel. Yes, you might take Kroolboy, but if you need another comparable ship... you need one of the other battleships or a hammer. It's the only Ork really heavy ship you can take multiples of.

But as this advantage comes in to play in large scale battles only, I think that giving Hammer 10 pt price drop might be in order. Boostas themselves might warrant it.

As for Zzap gun discount - I'm not convinced. They might be a bit overpriced now, but it fits the assumption that Orks should have limited lances.

[afterimagedan]

We shouldnt overprice something to discourage using it. That's the same crap that was used on the strike cruiser lances. It's better to give it the appropriate cost but put a cap on them some other way if you want to discourage it.

[blekinge]

Thanks Khar

I am not a fan of the smotherman formula for making new vessels, but I am a fan of using it to check a change to a vessel. Especially as we are redesigning an entire race, it is nice to have a common guideline about price for stuff. The formula should never be the end of the pricing, it should be used to check if a pricing seems about right.

I forgot that the Hammer can use Torpedoes or bombardment cannon. I priced as if it only had torpedoes. If it was priced as only having the bombardment cannon, it would be 254.5. The ability to switch between these two weapons in the same battle might be very good.
However,  the torpedoes seems to be weak compared to the  the bombardment cannon when the enemy is within 30cm. In the formula, D6+2 torpedoes is priced as 17.5 and S6 Bombardment cannon as 36. Add in that the torpedoes does not work, if the ship is not reloaded, and that they are random. From the tactica from Deadshane, he says he only used the random launchbays of the battleships to add to the fleet AC limit. As such, reloading does not happen on the battleship. The Hammer cruiser might find itself in the same situation.

Perhaps, and just perhaps, one should look at a stronger torpedo salvo, something like D6+4 instead of D6+2, as can be found on the Gorbads Revenge. D6+2 is cruiser strength. D6+4 is battleship strengh. I think that the grand cruiser should have battleship weapons on a cruiser hull.

Tomorrow I will try to use the formula on the escorts.

[blekinge]

Okay, now for the escorts

For those "TL;DR" types, here are the condensed questions I raise
1. Have we agreed to upgrade the ravager speed to 25cm? At the moment, it seems to be sharing the statline with the ramship.
2. Should a grunt assault ship (2 hits) which have lost one hit still have a boarding value of 4?
3. When did we upgrade the ramship to 3 turrets?



Same pricing as before, with these exceptions
Armour 6/4/4 is priced at 0 points. This was not nessesary before, as no capital ship is armoured this way. The armour pricing is thus
Arrmour 6/4/4   0
Armour 6/5/4   10
Armour 6/5/5   20

Escort shields are priced at 5 per shield. This is standard smotherman, but different from the '10 per shield' for capitals.


Onslaught      30 (Priced at 30)
      
Hits   1   5
Shields   1   5
Speed   20   4
Turning   45   0
Armour   6/4/4   0
Turrets   2   10
Weapons      
Prow Guns   D6+1   6

Okay, this escort is a perfect fit. Off to a good start.


Savage      37 (Priced at 35)
      
Hits   1   5
Shields   1   5
Speed   25   5
Turning   45   0
Armour   6/4/4   0
Turrets   2   10
Weapons      
Heavy Guns   4   8
Soopa boosta      4

I estimated the price of the soopa boosta to 4 points (as the +5cm speed was already paid for and the other escorts can get the upgrade for +5 pts).



Ravager      43.5 (Priced at 40)
      
Hits   1   5
Shields   1   5
Speed   25   5
Turning   45   0
Armour   6/4/4   0
Turrets   3   15
Weapons      
Prow Guns   2   3
Torpedoes   D6   10.5

Like the savage, it formula produced a number a little bit to high. I feel that the turrents might be overpriced for escorts in the formula.
Have we agreed to upgrade the ravager speed to 25cm? At the moment, it is sharing the statline with the ramship.


Grunt assault      40 (Priced at 40)
      
Hits   2   10
Shields   1   5
Speed   25   5
Turning   45   0
Armour   6/4/4   0
Turrets   3   15
Weapons      
Prow Guns   2   3
Boarding   2   2

I guestimated the additional boarding strength as 1pts per additional point. As the Grunt is already at 2 hits, it needs +2pts for +2 boarding value. Btw, the way the rules are written now, a "crippled" Grunt will still have a boarding value of 4.



And then for the bad fits

Brute Ram      33 (Priced at 25)
      
Hits   1   5
Shields   1   5
Speed   25   5
Turning   45   0
Armour   6/4/4   0
Turrets   3   15
Weapons      
Prow Guns   2   3
Ramming?      

The formula wants the brute ram to cost 8 points more, and that is even without adding it's special 4D6 ram attack. The issue here is that a ram hull without weapons is 30 points. By far the largest contribution comes from the 3 turrets. Which reminds me, when did we upgrade the ramship to 3 turrets?




Rok      102.5 (priced at 80)
      
Hits   8   40
Shields   1   5
Speed   10   2
Turning      0
Armour   5   0
Turrets   2   10
Weapons      
Prow Guns 45cm   D6+6   27
Prow Heavy Guns   4   8
Torpedoes   3   10.5


This is the worst fit I have seen so far. I think this partly comes from the "defenses" nature of the Rok. The smotherman formula is not optimised for defenses, so the Rok is priced as a very slow ship instead.

[blekinge]

When Leadership values are generated for the Ork fleet, Battleship X can opt to swap Leadership ratings with a Kill kroozer or Terror ship to represent the warlord dragooning the best crew in the fleet aboard his vessel.

This rule seems intuitive at first, but it has some unforseen consequences.

1. You can use it to reduce the LD of the battleship. If I have a squadron of 4 kill kroozers and a single battleship, it would much rather have the high LD in the squadron than on the battleship. If the battleship generated the high LD, i would probably dragoon the qualified crew onto a kill kroozer and get a worse LD on the battleship.

2. In spite of the wording "represent the warlord dragooning", this rule have nothing to do with warlords or characters. The warlord could very well be placed on the target ship, not the battleship.

Suggestion:
1. Make this rule a sideeffect of having character on board. A character can dragoon the crew of another ship.
2. Change to rule to show that you cannot dragoon a crew with lower ld than what you already have.

[blekinge]

Clan upgrades plus ship upgrades

I tried to think about ways to combine the clan and ship upgrades for fun and profit. The first result is the light-speed ramship.

Ramship 25pts
Soopa boosta 5 pts (+5cm)
Evil suns 20ps per squadron (+5cm)

So, we now have 90 (or 45?) degree turn, 35cm ship that goes on AAF without command checks. That's a fast ram.


Then there is the goff mega nobs assault ship

Take Battleship with soopa boosta
Add warlord 40 pts
Add mega armour 15 pts
Make Goff 20 pts
Add custom tractor 10 pts

So, this is a battleship with speed 20cm, free AAF(4D6), boarding value 24, boarding modifier of +3, +1 LD to ram, guaranteed ram-boarding, and with a power ram.
If the ship seems to slow, use a hammer CG with soopa boostas (speed 25cm), but this reduces the boarding value to 20.


Da BattleBarger
Take Deathdeala 285 pts
Make deathskull 20 pts
Take kapitan 40 pts
Take mega armour 15 pts

So, this will give you an armour 6/6/5 ship. It will use the normal LD table (-1+1 ld). It will have +2 boarding and +1 hit-n-run. And it will have a prow mounted bombardment cannon. This is as close to a marine battle barge you can make with orks.


The bad moon torpedo boys

A squadron of ravager attack ships
Bad moons 15 pts

So, each launch D6 (with reroll) torpedoes. This is the kind of salvoes that legends are made of.


And a few questions while I'm at it.

The brute have been downgraded to 45 turns. Is this intentional?

0-5 Nob : +20 pts, comes with one re-roll, can’t buy more. No additional rules. Unlocks one character
re-roll as normal.

What does "unlock one character re-roll as normal" mean? It is meant to be "one character upgrade"?

[afterimagedan]

Alright, there is so much info on here I don't even know where to begin... How should we go about this?

[jaggedtoothgrin]

start at the beginning and work your way down?

[Khar]

Just noting: I'm back and ready to finish this. Sorry for the absence, will upload updated version [hopefully final] tomorrow.

[Gun_wun]

Right on Khar, thank you!

[afterimagedan]

Sounds great!

[blekinge]

Hi Khar and Afterimagedan

It seems the ork project have been abandoned. If Khar cannot find the time to work on it any more, I would like to help out. It should be easy to update his pdf with the changes and questions I have posted since then. I will not post any updates without hearing from Khar, as the ork fleet list is really his baby, and I do not want to steal it. The thing is, however, that still not having a ruleset for orks for BFG:R, a core book race, does detract from the project overall. As always in 40k, the imperium is where things are happening. We have imperial Navy, Space Marines, Inquisition, Mechanicus done already. Battlefleet Bakka is seeing a lot more activity than orks now.

[horizon]

6 august isn't that long ago. Plus Khar is participating in GothiComp so he will check in at times I guess.

I, myself, are also guilty of lacking in progress on Rogue Traders (together with Andrew) but holiday season and gothicomp are kind of distractions.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Aye, summers the busy season for most.

[Jofficer13]

Hello, I have been interested in the various phases of this project, going back to Chronicles. I am posting you now to inquire as to whether you are a) still working on the project, and b) still accepting help from people who want to bring back a discontinued game.

Yours hopefully,
Jofficer13