BFG:R Vote 54: Finalizing Battlefleet Bakka

[afterimagedan]

No idea about what? I am well aware that you love that long serpent of yours. You are basically using an overlord with +5 speed (which is less necessary with its range and actually works against having a nova cannon) and +2 weapon batteries, some at smaller range. Also, the explosion thing is a negative. I don't see why this would be preferred to an Armageddon or Overlord. If people think its fine, let's keep it in. I don't see why it's an option worth taking, especially with the explosion thing.

Let me guess, you never sacrifice your queen either. 

Ever run into a fleet that had a really solid formation and wanted to break it up in a hurry?  Or wanted to make a battleship change course?

This flying bomb is perfect for it.  AAF into the center of the formation or make a ramming run at the battleship.  You'll see ships scattering to try and get away from what may or may not be the 'big kaboom'.  Factor in a hefty torp spread from everything else, and either they take big hits or scatter to be picked off by the small hoard of LCs and escorts following it.

P.S. I ALWAYS sacrifice my queen if I can take their queen down in the process.

[BaronIveagh]

As for the enforcer: IIRC you can swap out the lances for torpdoes, right? That should not be allowed, as you will quickly see how useless the torpedo dauntless it by comparison, especially at the same cost.

The lance variant has a niche, and a real unique flavour, but the torpedo one is just an ordnance monstrosity.

The Enforcer is limited to 3 per fleet though.  Meaning you'll need torp daunts to support it.


And only sacrifice the Queen to put your opponent in Checkmate.  One for one is a losing option with Queens.  (That's what bishops, rooks, and knights, to a degree, are for, anyway.)

[afterimagedan]

As for the enforcer: IIRC you can swap out the lances for torpdoes, right? That should not be allowed, as you will quickly see how useless the torpedo dauntless it by comparison, especially at the same cost.

The lance variant has a niche, and a real unique flavour, but the torpedo one is just an ordnance monstrosity.

The Enforcer is limited to 3 per fleet though.  Meaning you'll need torp daunts to support it.


And only sacrifice the Queen to put your opponent in Checkmate.  One for one is a losing option with Queens.  (That's what bishops, rooks, and knights, to a degree, are for, anyway.)

If you feel confident that your ability to work with everything but the queen is greater than your opponent's ability with them, a one to one, queen for queen, is a winning option.

[afterimagedan]

Here's exactly what I would like to see changed in BFB (I don't think we need to scrap BFB as it is in BFG:R now, but I would like to see added some more options from the original BFB):
1. Bring back the Enforcer (just as it is in BFGM 2, although should be 120pts)
2. Bring back the Defender (replacing its fleet defense turrets with the current upgrade from the Admech fleetn should be 115pts). 
3. I think the Vanquisher would be much more fluffy and usable if it was at 20cm movement at 310pts.

Anyone want to back me up on any of these?

[Talos]

I will back up all three of those suggestions, dan. They seem great to me.

[Bessemer]

Here's exactly what I would like to see changed in BFB (I don't think we need to scrap BFB as it is in BFG:R now, but I would like to see added some more options from the original BFB):
1. Bring back the Enforcer (just as it is in BFGM 2, although should be 120pts)
won't this make the Defiant somewhat redundant? (or is that the point )
2. Bring back the Defender (replacing its fleet defense turrets with the current upgrade from the Admech fleetn should be 115pts). 
Re-name so it doesn't clash with the Tau Escort? I submit the Stalwart as a replacement
3. I am fine with keeping the Mercury/Long Serpent as it. I'll budge on that one.
yep, if GW still did a parts service I would have already made one
4. I think the Vanquisher would be much more fluffy and usable if it was at 20cm movement at 310pts.
seems good. Original stats?

[afterimagedan]

1. I think the Defiant discussion should inform how the Enforcer should look point-wise. The Enforcer will look more like the Dauntless than the Endeavor in its speed, armor, and prow.
2. I like that name! If others think that renaming it is a good thing, I'm game.
3. I have been partially convinced by Baron on this one and I'm willing to admit it.
4. 2010 stats. Are there others?

[Bessemer]

The Vanquisher first appeared in the 1st (and only) Planet Killer Magazine, don't know if you remember it. Just looked it up, Stats as 2010 with speed 20 and 4 turrets, 340pts. Also in the new ships compendium.

so yeah, 2010, speed 20, 310pts it is!

[BaronIveagh]

Anyone want to back me up on any of these?

I think all of those are excellent.  Can we have the Cardinal back too as a reserve ship?  Or is that just too much?

[Bessemer]

I'd forgotten about that! Hell, it even got a mention in one of the Badab IA books, why not add it?

If we do bring it back, shouldn't it be included in chaos as well?

for those who don't know...
 190pts
Cruiser/8 hits, speed 25cm, turns 45, armour 5+, 2 shields, 3 turrets
port/starboard lances, 45cm, str 2, as arc
dorsal WB's, 45cm, fpw 6 f/l/r
prow Torps, spd 30cm, str6, f/l/r

model as Acheron, though it was given as an Imperial ship. Taint resistant design?

[afterimagedan]

I'd forgotten about that! Hell, it even got a mention in one of the Badab IA books, why not add it?

If we do bring it back, shouldn't it be included in chaos as well?

Prob not because of the fluff about it. I'll check into it again but if I remember correctly, it's the pre-Acheron that didn't turn.

[afterimagedan]

Anyone want to back me up on any of these?

I think all of those are excellent.  Can we have the Cardinal back too as a reserve ship?  Or is that just too much?

I'm not against that at all.

[afterimagedan]

I think the original Vanquisher is more fluffy and fitting but extremely overpriced. I think 300pts is much more appropriate. Slower and less armed than the Desolator, but with that nice 6+ prow.

[horizon]

Is the Cardinal a battle/heavy cruiser, then?
I see not a lot of objection to it.

[Bessemer]

Yes, heavy cruiser. Forgot to mention