The Apoc and Victory

[Vaaish]

after reading through the various threads I think I've finally whittled down where the current BFGR stats came from. Unfortunately I think that they are causing some degree of difficulty with the Victory. I can't explain how the rules for the Apoc morphed as much as they did since at the time of the FAQ2010 writing the consensus was that it only needed the penalty for firing over 30cm  adjusted from a crit to a BM behind the ship.

I still haven't figured out where the desire to make all things dorsal s9 on IN BB came from or the reasoning behind it since this seems to predate the current BFGR crew and happened after I left the forums.

I'd like to bring this back up and put in a change to move the Apoc closer to the original and fix the crit rule.

Apoc:
15cm 45` 4 shields 6+/5+ 4 turrets
P/S Lance batteries s6 30cm
Prow NC
Dorsal WB s6 60cm (s9 pending someone giving the reason why this change keeps coming up)

If the Apoc is given Lock On Special Orders, it may increase the range of it's lances to 60cm for that shooting phase only. However, if this option is used place one BM behind the Apoc as soon as the lances are fired.

Reasons: The point of the rule was to give the Apoc some downside for getting 12x Lances at 60cm. The current rule and stats only giving the ship 1bm for its trouble and natural 60cm weapons begs the question why bother with a downside at all since it has very little tabletop effect outside of preventing the Apoc from turning without SO.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I think the biggest argument is that the blast marker also downs a shield, but given that this is minor due to the fact that it would have to be facing off against something with comparable range (most ships of which, if not all, dont have the power to really take advantage of it) that i dont see it being that much of a down side. 

The dorsal weapons were deemed to be inferior to a comparable battleships dorsal lance battery. Of course if the ship is given an adequate price for said weapons I dont much see the point in changing them to 9 and then boosting their points. If the Apoc is adequately priced with 6 Dorsal wb then leave it, same for the Vic.

[afterimagedan]

I know I have said this before but just keeping them both how they are and adding the merger option is the best way to fix it so far. You have an Apoc with 6 lances on the side that can shoot six shots. You have a Victory that is supposed to copy the Apoc and has the same 6 lance sockets on the side and yet can only fire 4. I think that's silly. Keep the dorsals the same as they are now. Fine with me. This is the best option because the Victory, in the fluff, is supposed to have less fore power than the Apoc but be more efficient. I think all these things work out with this mix.

[Sigoroth]

I see no conflict between the current Apocalypse and the original Victory at all. The current BFG:R Apocalypse is perfect as is. The Victory does not need 6 lances. It's a suboptimal ship, like the Desolator.

[Talos]

And like the desolator, it should be kept cheap. Their only real use should be as basically very resilient heavy/battle cruisers with battleship ranges.

@Vaaish Due to the fact that it is rather poor as a line breaker, most people use the apocalypse at long range, firing broadside into the enemy and hopefully getting off some nova shots on outflankers and its opening salvo. So in reality the apocalypse never gets to fire both broadsides, unlike the retribution which will fairly often crack the enemy fleet in two.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I dont know about the Apoc never getting to use both broadsides, if your not trying to sink that beast into the middle of it all I think your missing out. It is the perfect gunship to slip in with the main line and core some stuff after eveything else has fired.

[afterimagedan]

I dont know about the Apoc never getting to use both broadsides, if your not trying to sink that beast into the middle of it all I think your missing out. It is the perfect gunship to slip in with the main line and core some stuff after eveything else has fired.

I would disagree. It's a matter of taste, I suppose, but you are paying points for the long ranged lances and the Nova Cannon. Perfect ship for the main line? Maybe not perfect but I see your point. If I were trying this, I would just use a Retribution.

[Sigoroth]

And like the desolator, it should be kept cheap. Their only real use should be as basically very resilient heavy/battle cruisers with battleship ranges.

@Vaaish Due to the fact that it is rather poor as a line breaker, most people use the apocalypse at long range, firing broadside into the enemy and hopefully getting off some nova shots on outflankers and its opening salvo. So in reality the apocalypse never gets to fire both broadsides, unlike the retribution which will fairly often crack the enemy fleet in two.

Agreed.