BFG:R Light Cruisers

[Tyberius]

I guess we could allow ships like the jovian or the enforcer limiting them to 0-1 cause their rarity...

[horizon]

To pick one ship from a rare list?
Otherwise a scrupulous person could take:
1 Jovian and 1 Enforcer

[Tyberius]

To pick one ship from a rare list?
Otherwise a scrupulous person could take:
1 Jovian and 1 Enforcer

Indeed. a list of rare hated ships where you can choose only one from... good idea for those poor ill-fated vessels to show themselves in battle once in a while, without destroying the delicate Bfg balance...

[Vaaish]

Or we could leave well enough alone, dont add the enforcer and let people just take them with their opponents permission like always. Balance is unchanged and everyone gets what they want.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Or take an Enforcer and call it a Defiant.

[Sigoroth]

Or we could leave well enough alone, dont add the enforcer and let people just take them with their opponents permission like always. Balance is unchanged and everyone gets what they want.

^

[BaronIveagh]

Your reasonings are clearly assumptions and my take is backed up by tables, reasonable reasonings and text in the book.

My position is backed up by the test of the book and the stats of every single other ship with the 'Carrier' ability in the book.  My assumption is that that ability works the same the same on every ship.  Your assumption is that Endeavor and Defiant are the same hull in RT, which is not backed up by their stats (Endeavor has 4 weapon slots, Defiant has 3).

edit: the errate had the Mars & Excorcist. Why? Because it could be either Escort Bays or Landing bays on them as either can go on a cruiser. They have Landing bays.
For the Defiant the question wasn't needed to as it can only take one of type the bays.

The Errata has Mars and Exorcist because there was no debate about the rather vague statement from FFG applying to them.  They have never issued any clarification on Defiant despite being asked many times by many people, and so the errata writers played it safe, not being FFG employees, last I heard.



(Totally not proof but an interesting note: most people seem to be playing it as a 4 lb ship when I asked around.  According to the GMs I've spoken with, it's pretty balanced.)

[AndrewChristlieb]

BFK has the pilots and attackcraft support personel for a Defiant at ~6100 and a Dictator at ~15000.

And the rules flat out say that the 2bay module cannot be placed on a light cruisr hull. Reguardless of anything else the fluff says that the Defiant is an Endeavour varient not an entirely different hull and there is no denying its a light cruiser.

So thats fluff and rules for both BFG and BFK supporting 2 launch not 4.

[Sigoroth]

BFK has the pilots and attackcraft support personel for a Defiant at ~6100 and a Dictator at ~15000.

And the rules flat out say that the 2bay module cannot be placed on a light cruisr hull. Reguardless of anything else the fluff says that the Defiant is an Endeavour varient not an entirely different hull and there is no denying its a light cruiser.

So thats fluff and rules for both BFG and BFK supporting 2 launch not 4.

Well, there might be a case to assume that the Defiant has 4 bays in BFK due to some unclear wording/precedents, but the point is that since it's debatable in that system then there is zero reason to bring it up for this system. Mind you, even if it were clear cut there's no particular reason why we should alter BFG stats to accommodate BFK stats. They're different game systems. If anything it should be the other way around, since BFK stats draw from BFG profiles.

If they chose to show an Emperor with 10 launch bays that's no reason for us to change the BFG Emperor to 10, regardless if there exists a verisimilitude between the two systems weapon strengths.

[horizon]

Thank you Andrew. 
Indeed another good argument.

eg. there is nothing like a 'carrier capability' in BFK. There are four vessels (Mars, Excorcist, Dictator, Defiant) who come with pre-installed components -> Jovian Launch Bays (generic term, not specified Landing or Escort).
For example a Lunar does not come with pre-installed weapon batteries and lances on its broadsides. The character vessels (Sirius) do show a Lunar with these components.
In the entry it says that the Defiant is a rarer variant of the Endeavour. And yes it is has other prow slots (1 less), but that is where they took BFG rules/stats to literal imo.

[BaronIveagh]

If they chose to show an Emperor with 10 launch bays that's no reason for us to change the BFG Emperor to 10, regardless if there exists a verisimilitude between the two systems weapon strengths.

Hmm... Ok, Sig, I grant that's a good point as I was just working out Styx under the RT rules and it comes to 8 lbs.  (Possibly as high as 24 depending on how broken your interpretation of the archeotech table in Stars of Inequity is, but I'll go to Hell before I allow a heavy cruiser to have THAT many lbs.  I'm amazed there has not been errata for that book yet...)

I will say that RT's Defiant is definitely balanced at 4 lbs for it's SP cost, but that our Defiant may not match up.

I have not seen, speaking of balance, any new play tests with any of these suggestions that people have made, despite all the voting going on. 

[Talos]

@BaronIveagh Fantasy Flight Games updates their errata yearly, not by the book unfortunately. What I really wish is that they would choose a better manufacturer; despite the inherent beauty of their products, their books are the single most fragile product line of gaming manuals I have ever used, and considering I have played over 20 seperate rpg's that's saying something. They simply fall apart at a ridiculous speed.

[BaronIveagh]

@BaronIveagh Fantasy Flight Games updates their errata yearly, not by the book unfortunately.

That and the guys that were running the 'Living Errata' for them seem to have dropped off the map again.  They were doing a decent job at keeping up, but FFG seems to be again in the 'non-responsive' mode when questioned.  We used to get replies pretty quick before Sam got moved to other properties.

[horizon]

The fact Ross Watson no longer works for FFG may have to do with it. I mailed a couple of times with him and he was responsive & quick on mails.

[horizon]

Okay,
I mailed the FFG rule question mail address, this was their response:


Hi Roy,

Good question.  It should have the Escort Bays.

I hope that this helps!

--
Max Brooke
Associate RPG Producer
Fantasy Flight Games
mbrooke@fantasyflightgames.com





On Mar 28, 2013, at 12:04 AM,  wrote:

Message from:
Roy Amkreutz


E-mail:
Horizon@epic40k.co.uk


Rule Question:
Hi,
In battlefleet koronus, does the defiant light cruiser come with jovian pattern escort bays or jovian pattern landing bays?


For now that should settle it until a higher up from FFG (eg Sam) says otherwise I imagine.