BFG:R Light Cruisers

[afterimagedan]

I think the Defiant would be just fine as it is right now at:

6 hits, 20cm speed, 90* turns, 1 shield, 6+/5+, 2 turrets
P/S Launchbays (1 each)
Prow torpedoes 2
Prow wbs F/L/R/ 30cm 2

... for 110pts.  I could also see it with an additional 1 wb added to its prow (3 total)

[Vaaish]

Why did the defiant trade the s2 lances for WB?

[afterimagedan]

Because then two of them defeats the Dictator in pretty much every way then. You could take a Dictator with 6 torps and 6wb on each side, OR, you could take 2 Defiants with 4 freakin F/L/R lances and 4 torpedoes with the same launch capacity and 4 more hits. If we want to take lances, it will need to be more than 110pts, definitely. Don't forget the 90* turn. The only downside is the 1 shield before taking damage before 2.

[horizon]

It should have 4 prow batteries for 110pts.

[afterimagedan]

I could get on board for that.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Four wb and no torpedoes? The real problem with the Defiant is still its craptastic broadside. Short of a radical solution or a greatly increased price i dont see that changing. 

[Vaaish]

Because then two of them defeats the Dictator in pretty much every way then. You could take a Dictator with 6 torps and 6wb on each side, OR, you could take 2 Defiants with 4 freakin F/L/R lances and 4 torpedoes with the same launch capacity and 4 more hits. If we want to take lances, it will need to be more than 110pts, definitely. Don't forget the 90* turn. The only downside is the 1 shield before taking damage before 2.

playing devils advocate here, but there is a bit more to it than what you posted. For starters their largest wave size is 2 AC unless you squadron the Defiants and place them in base contact. As a squadron and with a single shield they will be more susceptible to bracing and easier to cripple than the Dictator. The Defiant also has equivalent firepower to the dictator (4lances = 12wb. dictator=12wb) but with the benefit of focusing in a single arc. If you are using the 210 point value for a dictator, the defiants clock in 10 points more than a dictator. If you price the defiant at 115 that jumps to 20 points more which should be more than adequate.

[horizon]

@ Andrew,
no, 4 batteries + 2 torps on the prow.

The Defiant can do this as power conduits run differently compared to the Endeavour/Endurance.

I mean, two lances on the prow is even weirder.

[Sigoroth]

No, leave the prow armament on the Defiant the same as the other two. Price it at 100 pts. If you want to price it higher then give it a 3rd turret or a-boats or both and call it 110 pts.

[Khar]

With 4 batteries +2 torps it's not entirely usleless when it fails its reload order. I'd vote for that. True, pair of them could focus more firepower than Dictator, but they only have single shield [for both, assuming base contact to launch waves of 4, like Dictator can] and start losing effectivenes after 3 hits, comparing to Dictator's 4. Plus, Dictator has stronger torpedo salvo.

2 LFR lances would be over the top not in comparison with Dictator [both 2 Defiants and Dictator have their own poblems, roughly balancing each other] but with Endurance - Defiant would do its job nearly as good.

I like the idea of Defiant which apart from being supporting carrier can deal relatively solid punch to the front. Gives more reasons to use it.

[Sigoroth]

So tell me, why can the Defiant get more guns on its prow than the other 2? This notion baffles me. Particularly as it's described as having bugger all shooty business going on.

Obviously the best design would be to have it identical to the other 2 variants but with 2AC per side at +20 pts. We just can't do this because it gives the IN a full carrier waaaaaaaaay too cheaply. The beardy ordnance spam would be horrific.

So just leave its launch bays at 1/side and drop its cost. I am a fan of the a-boat + turret idea to make up for the loss. The turret because it's a carrier and they typically have more and the a-boats because it has the extra room to be able to store them and house the requisite men, since it has only half strength bays.

These are ok sort of gimmicks, but for this type of underpowered ship the idea is simply "cheap".

The alternative route would be to give it 2AC/side at 130 pts (Endeavour + 20) and some drawbacks. These could be things such as: giving a -1 to RO checks for any squadron it's in (including when it's by itself); limiting its launch capability in any one turn to 2f/2b maximum, rather than 4f or 4b (so it has 1 fighter bay and 1 bomber bay per side) and; drastically limiting its use, ideally to 0 per fleet but possibly 1 per fleet if people really insisted. Maybe all three. Possibly some others too. I myself really like the 0 per fleet limitation.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I dont like the idea of them having different prow armament even tho I understand the reasoning, and actually with all of the equipment required to keep flight wings operational I would say the power requirements for the flight decks would be pretty high. Clearly not as high as a dedicated Lance battery but then the Lances pull right from the main plasma core. Weapons batteries would have a significantly lower power requirement than the Lances also.

So radical idea:

Armament                                        Range/Speed          Firepower/Str        Fire Arc
*Port/Starboard Launch Bays             Furies 30cm          1+d3 squadrons           -
                                                      Starhawks 20cm 

* Port/Starboard Launch Bays: The Defiants launch bays will be compleatly disabled on either a Port Armament Damaged or Starboard Armament Damaged critical hit. This is still only one weapon emplacement, the most you can launch per turn is 1+d3 squadrons not 1+d3 squadrons per side.

[horizon]

Random bays? Na?


What *IF* we do this:
the Defiant does get 4 AC in total, but only fighters.

or only a max of 2 bombers and a max of 2 fighters? (But a wave of 4 with mix 2/2 is possible).

[AndrewChristlieb]

Whats wrong with random bays? I think its pretty fitting for the ship .

[Khar]

...their randomness, mostly You're never sure how effective the ship will be, makes planning harder.

Ok, you convinced me about prow weaponry. Should stay the same on all three cruisers.

I wouldn't give it more than 2 launch bays, possibilities of AC spam would be horryfying this way. Maybe make its ordnance more reliable? +1 Ld when reloading? For 105 points maybe?