August 01, 2024, 03:12:01 PM

Author Topic: BFG:R Light Cruisers  (Read 44313 times)

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #105 on: March 19, 2013, 06:07:33 PM »
I'm not against the lance addition.

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2013, 06:14:51 PM »
To me Imperial Navy keywords are:
torpedoes
prow armour
steamroller
nova cannon

But with the note one can play a carrier fleet or a broadside fleet as much as he wished and the rules do provide in that.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #107 on: March 19, 2013, 06:19:20 PM »
I'm right with you Horizon. I just don't like they this Dictator will put the Defiant right at the top of the most potent carrier point/LB list.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #108 on: March 19, 2013, 06:56:26 PM »
Well even with 4 bays its a suboptimal pick. With a high coat and the right restrictions it can be useable and balanced. 

What if it had a limit of 1/500 instead of 2?
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #109 on: March 19, 2013, 07:17:59 PM »
Well even with 4 bays its a suboptimal pick. With a high coat and the right restrictions it can be useable and balanced. 

What if it had a limit of 1/500 instead of 2?

The restrictions as they are now are hardly restrictions. You can still have 6 in a 1500pt fleet. How is it a suboptimal pick?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #110 on: March 19, 2013, 08:44:48 PM »
1 shield, 6 hits, 2 wb... Its not tough enough to hang with the fleet and it doesnt have the range to be a support option.

Convoy escort to answer an earlier question.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #111 on: March 19, 2013, 08:52:11 PM »
6 Defiants + 2 Emperors, lol.
Or Defiants with 4 lb in an AdMech fleet...

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #112 on: March 19, 2013, 08:52:47 PM »
Its optimal because it's primary weapons, 4 launch bays) are not worried about range. It doesn't have to hang with the fleet. Having 3 Defiants hanging a ways behind your fleet can still have 12 bombers out at a time. Also, at this point, it's more durable than a dauntless so it can hang with the front line more than a dauntless durability-wise.

I would prefer to give it lances in place of the WBo on dorsal instead of going to 4 lbs.

Have people thought through 3lbs? I don't think that's all that bad of an idea. It would take a special rule though but I don't think it would be all that hard to do. It could be 4 torps 3 lbs. The dorsal wbs could have been refitted for launch openings. Yes, it seems different, but I think workable.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 08:56:57 PM by afterimagedan »

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #113 on: March 19, 2013, 09:18:54 PM »
6 Defiants + 2 Emperors, lol.
Or Defiants with 4 lb in an AdMech fleet...

In a 2k? Certainly not 1500...

Its optimal because it's primary weapons, 4 launch bays) are not worried about range. It doesn't have to hang with the fleet. Having 3 Defiants hanging a ways behind your fleet can still have 12 bombers out at a time. Also, at this point, it's more durable than a dauntless so it can hang with the front line more than a dauntless durability-wise.

Attack craft do care about range. If your forced to keep them back you cant react as quickly, let them get too close and theyre braced too easily. For that price you can have an Emp with Sharks, ld9 guaranteed and a re-roll. The Emp can also throw some support.

I would prefer to give it lances in place of the WBo on dorsal instead of going to 4 lbs.

so back to square one?

Have people thought through 3lbs? I don't think that's all that bad of an idea. It would take a special rule though but I don't think it would be all that hard to do. It could be 4 torps 3 lbs. The dorsal wbs could have been refitted for launch openings. Yes, it seems different, but I think workable.

port/starboard combined i post something similar earlier (random) but i think a restriction to 1/500 with 4bays would be simpler
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #114 on: March 19, 2013, 09:30:42 PM »
As for the emperor vs 2 defiants, yes, the emperor does have those bonuses but pays 85 points for the upgrades.

I would rather go back to square 1 than have 4 lbs. If we end up going with 4 launch bays, we should make it 1/750.

What would you like to see it as? 4lb, 2 torps, 2wbs?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 09:43:40 PM by afterimagedan »

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #115 on: March 19, 2013, 10:01:29 PM »
Actually Emp+ Sharks+ fleet admiral vs 3 Defiants @140.



Really Im ok with it as is right now (needs testing of course). Im just running ideas out since it seems thats not the direction others would like to see. We could go from the fluff and give it 2 torps and 0 weapons.

Why 1/750? Its not really that good ;).
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #116 on: March 19, 2013, 10:05:01 PM »
I don't care, just give some good evidence to support your claim. Any official sources.


*shrug* Ok, E it is.

Blue Book, page 112: 'As the demand for supporting attack craft grew, a number of badly damaged Lunars were reconfigured as Dictators at the main fleet bases.  By the end of the war, seven more Dictators were in service..."

BFGM #1:
"Badly damaged Mars class Battlecruisers were occasionally modified to be stripped of weaponry and an additional set of launch bays were added.  Dubbed the 'Warbringer' class, this design, once battle prove, was soon adopted into a completly new class dedicated to the role - the first of these 'Jovian' class ships, the Reverent, came into operation just before the outbreak of the Gothic War and it quickly made good account of itself."

Execution Hour - The Gothic war novels follow around the Dictator class Lord Solar Macharius, and so are a bit carrier centric.

Relentless - Mentions a old fleet carrier being abandoned due to a failing warp drive (IIRC)

Battlefleet Koronus - "Often Ill favored by the Command Staff of Battlefleet Calixis, due to preference for ''true' warships, carriers like the Dictator class cruiser are nonetheless a valuable strategic asset for the Imperial Navy, simply due to their versatility."  (It goes on to talk about how they're used to deploy IN's atmospheric craft as well, meaning that they are used anywhere and everywhere that IG needs air cover, at least for the initial deployment, but I'm not copying a whole damn page for this, for more details, Page 10 of BFK)

Victoria Horne goes on to comment how she wants to command a Dictator if and when she ever gets promoted away from the Hawk on page 25, suggesting that officer attitudes are changing in IN.  100 years before present.

Page 24-25 also contains the Dictator entry for hulls, stating that the Dictator was originally conceived as a means by which the IN could transport and deploy atmospheric craft and it was over time more and more frequently fitted for anti-ship and support operations.  (Most likely to fill in the gap created with the lull in Mars production and the phasing out of the Styx.)


Actually Emp+ Sharks+ fleet admiral vs 3 Defiants @140.



Really Im ok with it as is right now (needs testing of course). Im just running ideas out since it seems thats not the direction others would like to see. We could go from the fluff and give it 2 torps and 0 weapons.

Why 1/750? Its not really that good ;).

It's an issue with people's preconceptions of 'How IN SHOULD be'.   Horizon offers a horrific vision of the future, but if you look at you realize that said fleet is also a one trick pony that can be overcome rather quickly.

I see it as a stand off support ship. 

str 4 lbs
str 4 torps
20cm with a +5 purchasable upgrade
no other weapons,

150 pts.

Anyone that can close with it can kill it fairly easily, and if anyone is insane enough to try and build a fleet revolving around them, it's pretty much guaranteed to lose.  But it's great as long range support for your fleet.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 10:21:18 PM by BaronIveagh »
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Offline BaronIveagh

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #117 on: March 19, 2013, 10:20:38 PM »
Double Post
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Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #118 on: March 19, 2013, 10:26:32 PM »
I don't need convincing that the IN is in favor of launch bays. I don't think those examples favor us making am option that will allow IN to out launch most other fleets, regardless of what other factors are involved such as other guns on ships, shield amount, etc.

Alright, if its 1/500, 4 launch bays, 2 wbs, 2 torps, I am calculating it at 150-155pts.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Light Cruisers
« Reply #119 on: March 19, 2013, 10:37:16 PM »
Ya 150 feels right. Id still consider dropping the weaps although that doesnt say automatically boost the torps.

1/500 is the natural progression imo:

Endeavour 110, approx 4/500

Endurance 110, less common 2/500

Defiant 150, the least common 1/500
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 10:40:15 PM by AndrewChristlieb »
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.