BFG:R as a finished project-Who actually cares?

[BaronIveagh]

Yeah, Horizon just mentioned it.  I've asked him to add my vote to the Jovian thread and let him know what my stats are for troubleshooting.

[horizon]

Like afterimageDan says: shoot Cybershadow or Mod-Lex an email or personal message.

I use FireFox as well and have no issues with voting, so that is weird. You must be logged in to vote, that is a given. And you can only vote within the timeframe the vote is running. Check out the Victory voting today, just to see if you can vote.

[BaronIveagh]

I figured it out.  Cache cleared, voting commenced.

[afterimagedan]

I had to do the same thing. Something weird was happening and I couldn't post from on Chrome yesterday. Cache problems as well.

[horizon]

Cool. 

[Khar]

Just dropping in to say I care
Currently, we're playing only BFG:R here [my fault, I'm grooming new players towards it ] while ignoring more conservative minded players.
I find R vastly superior when it comes to game balance and new recruits don't mind.

[Zhukov]

Here's my opinion (Brace for Impact).

IIRC, BFG:R was started around the time the FAQ 2010 was still being worked on. It was started by a small group of players who didn't appreciate the HA for not including what they perceived as balance and rules issues in the game. It was of my opinion these players decided to abandon helping the FAQ, and instead focus all their time on their own project. I, for one, was not a part of this crowd. I felt it was of supreme importance to have a recognized official document that everyone would use, rather than a random grouping of house rules cobbled together by a minority.

I'm not dissing the work you have put into the document. Honestly, I've never even looked at it. But we all use various house rules of some kind that we believe make the game more functional than it is written (I.e. I follow original torpedo rules, place blast markers for each shield and internal hit, and 2-hit escorts). But I thought it was... odd to have multiple rules updates happening at the same time. I know it's been 3 years, but I've barely digested the FAQ, let alone really seeing the need for some modifications to it.

Seriously, keep up the work! This is a dying game that needs every die-hard like you to keep it going. If working on a really pretty looking house rules compendium (no sarcasm here. From what I have seen, this will look really sharp) is the way to keep this game going, then go for it! I'm just trying to explain the low participation.

Cheers,
-Zhukov

[BaronIveagh]

I'm not dissing the work you have put into the document. Honestly, I've never even looked at it. But we all use various house rules of some kind that we believe make the game more functional than it is written (I.e. I follow original torpedo rules, place blast markers for each shield and internal hit, and 2-hit escorts). But I thought it was... odd to have multiple rules updates happening at the same time. I know it's been 3 years, but I've barely digested the FAQ, let alone really seeing the need for some modifications to it.

I'll be honest, I more or less share zhukov's perspective.  BFG:R grew out of the fact that the Rules process had, in part, become too political.  Basic common sense and good game design started to take a back seat to people's personal agendas and vendettas.   Hypocrisy ran rampant in the forums (and to an extent I was as guilty as Sig, Horizon, and the rest).

I'll be honest, BFG:R means little to me, though I speak up on certain issues with certain fleets, because it's ultimately a distraction from what we need to be doing, which is elevating BFG in the public eye of the TT gaming community.  We've been pissing away a golden opportunity to leverage FFG's Rogue Trader RPG into increased visibility for BFG.

[Vaaish]

IIRC, BFG:R was started around the time the FAQ 2010 was still being worked on. It was started by a small group of players who didn't appreciate the HA for not including what they perceived as balance and rules issues in the game.

that's not a very fair assessment. When the FAQ was being worked on the HA made clear that there were some issues they couldn't touch like changing the base stats for the existing ships for the FAQ to be more palatable to GW. BFGR was supposed to fix those things the HA couldn't. Since then it seems to have morphed into something more expansive.

[Khar]

We should also remember, that while FAQ 2010 did change lots of stuff for the better, in many places problems ran way deeper. Official rules gave us broken Necrons and Eldar that won or lost battles during determining battlefield features. FAQ never intended to change this things, and other bigger balance issues, so other, less official update, was needed in oppinion of some.

Also, years have passed and FAQ is still not in the slightest acknowleged by GW. So it's just as unofficial as BFG:R. But do people care? Not really. It was needed and it's used in many gaming circles. So, seeing that 'official' has lost its meaning, this big issues that FAQ never intended to touch can also be fixed.

Yeah, BFG community isn't really doing much to promote the game to the broader audience, but really, what would it  change? We are not getting official update, nevermind how popular the game will get now. And if we do get it, seeing what happnes to the 40k rules and setting now, we will wish we didn't.

So what is left is mend the broken parts as good as we can, for those few who care about it and keep playing. Is anyone really bothered that wargaming community has barely heard about his game?

Yeah, BFG:R is just a pretty house rule compendium, but for most of the player base, this game is never really played outside of the house.

[afterimagedan]

Is anyone really bothered that wargaming community has barely heard about his game?

Yes. I would love to promote it so that there are more players around, especially where I am.

but for most of the player base, this game is never really played outside of the house.

Doesn't have to be this way. I like promoting the game to my gaming community and have seen some new players. I will continue to do so.

[Khar]

And, follow up question: would those new players care that game doesn't have hure official events and is heavily house ruled [considering these rules are contained in one compendium?]

Players I have introduced to the game didn't, nothing wrong in fan made rules as long as they make game fun.
I try to promote the game locally, with some success even, and from where I stand, finishing BFG:R is a way to help it. Having all the rules in one place, without additional FAQ's and million separate pdf's with various part of the same fleet will really make it clearer for the new guys. When there is one solid block containing rules, promoting the game will be easier. Someone asks where he can find the rules, we answer 'here'. No additional explanation is needed.

Same with events: GW will not make them. So if there are to be some, we will have to organise them ourselves. So again, which rules it will use is up to us, and having more balanced, clear rules in one place looks like a superior option.

[afterimagedan]

Agreed completely. That's why I am excited for Gorlak to get those rules done as well as finish BFG:R.

[BaronIveagh]

So it's just as unofficial as BFG:R.

Incorrect.  It's still handed down by the official rules committee.

Yeah, BFG community isn't really doing much to promote the game to the broader audience, but really, what would it  change? We are not getting official update, nevermind how popular the game will get now. And if we do get it, seeing what happnes to the 40k rules and setting now, we will wish we didn't.

... the nicest response I have to this violates no fewer than 10 of this forums rules.

To summerize it in the most polite manner possible:

I'd rather die on my feet than die on my knees, you pathetic coward.

Is anyone really bothered that wargaming community has barely heard about his game?

Yes.

Yeah, BFG:R is just a pretty house rule compendium, but for most of the player base, this game is never really played outside of the house.

That would require you to have the spine to leave your parent's basement.

Let me summarize what I just heard you selling, Khar:  'Let's just surrender!  It's better to die on our knees in the gutter than to resist!" 

For the Love of the Emperor, grow some balls, people!  Have some FIRE in your bellies!  'Let's die like pathetic worms under boot' is NOT an option!

I feel like, when I chat with some of you, that I'm a space marine surrounded by PDF troopers.  The ones not actively trying to commit suicide are trying to find someplace to hide while the tyranids pour over the wall.

How much does it cost to start a professional tournament, 100k?  200k?

[afterimagedan]

Baron's hallucinating again. Just disregard the last post,  he totally misunderstood you and is starting a flame way. Just don't pay attention and hopefully the outbursts will stop.