August 03, 2024, 07:14:46 PM

Poll

Should we allow the Jovian ship to be taken as a reserve vessel outside of Battlefleet Bakka?

Yes, make it official.
5 (45.5%)
No, needs more work.
6 (54.5%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: March 05, 2013, 06:16:09 PM

Author Topic: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian  (Read 7177 times)

Offline afterimagedan

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BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« on: February 28, 2013, 06:16:09 PM »
Jovian. This is the FAQ 2010 version.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 07:20:05 PM by afterimagedan »

Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2013, 06:26:39 PM »
Yes. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to reserve it just cause "there's only one". It is just a modified Mars after all, and whether or not it's popular is beside the point. Player have made, and do use the Jovian so just let it in.

Hell, if you don't like it DON'T USE IT
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline Duke

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2013, 07:10:02 PM »
Uh, could you recap its current stats in the OP, just to make things clear? Is it the original or some BFG:R variant?

-Duke

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2013, 07:20:25 PM »
I have been looking at the 2010 version. Is there another one?

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 07:43:16 PM »
I just dislike the Jovian because:
1) it makes the IN more AC-ish, yet the restriction tempers this, but nonetheless it does turn the IN into AC-ish.

2) even more for me: I still stand the ground the Styx should be the only 6 lb cruiser sized vessel.  >:(

Offline Duke

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2013, 07:45:13 PM »
I don't have all of BFG:R bookmarked, so I was unaware if Plaxor had revisited the ship/if that was the variant being voted upon.

-Duke

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 07:54:02 PM »
Here, Compendium2010, it is in Battlefleet Bakka.
http://tinyurl.com/23nul8q

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 11:03:30 PM »
I dont really care for this ship for a few reasons but the highlights are the cheap AC it provides the IN fleet, something they should not have and the fact that its fluff is so opposed to what one would expect from Bakka.

"We HATE attack craft, they are the worst things ever!!!! Everytime we have attempted to work with attack craft it has been a laughable failure!!!! Oh, well ya except then we went ahead and made the biggest turd carrier of them all because of a suddenly perceived weakness", gag.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2013, 04:18:33 AM »
Could you show us where the lore says that the Bakka hates attack craft? This is how the BFB document puts it:

"This incident left for many centuries a suspicion of attack carriers in Tempestus battlefleets, and even today there is a tendency for such fleets to favor big-gun ships. This is particularly true of Battlefleet Bakka where the Big-Gun Lobby had subsequently reigned supreme."

This is NOT "We HATE attack craft, they are the worst things ever!!!! Everytime we have attempted to work with attack craft it has been a laughable failure!!!! Battlefleet Bakka page 1: "This 'Young School' proposed a complete change to Imperial Navy fleets based on attack-craft carriers as such tactics had proved highly effective against pirate squadrons." AND "Therefore, there has been a tendency for Tempestus battlefleets to concentrate on small flotilla and anti-piracy tactics rather than a Grand Fleet strategy." Oh, well ya except then we went ahead and made the biggest turd carrier of them all because of a suddenly perceived weakness"

"The Jovian is viewed with misgivings by many authorities in Battlefleet Bakka, as history and tradition are hard to set aside in the Imperial Navy in general and by the fleetlords of Bakka in particular. With the history of the Garerox Prerogative required reading in the fleet academies, the very idea that the Imperial Navy should need a dedicated attack craft carrier is viewed as anathema. However, the horrors of the First Tyrannic War cast a negative light on Battlefleet Bakka‟s inherent distrust of attack craft, and while their tactics of relying on massed battery and lance fire proved effective, it was only prudent that more attack craft should be made available to support the battlefleet."  How is this "so opposed to what one would expect from Bakka?" Do you have evidence of that from official sources?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2013, 12:27:01 PM »
Well I thought it was clear I was going for an over the top approach :P.

There is nothing official on Bakka other than blurbs, thats the problem. The only thing we have to go off of is what was written for BFG as fan work and its not consistant.

Things like the Dominion, why would they design a ship that they will immediatly distrust? Oh and it was a flop, apparently so was the Jovian, but really in any other fleet they would both do ok, its just that these ships are not setup for the kind of work Bakka normally deals with. So once again why would they build these ships, the Jovian in particular when they have seen (to them) that time and time again carriers are just inferior. No I would see them going "Our turrets are not enough, lets add more turrets" not "Hum maybe we should throw away thousands of years of beliefs and build a a supercarrier!"
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Tyberius

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 03:57:53 AM »
Make it with the +1 Leadership bonus for the prow antennae array and lower prow armor to 5+


and btw.....what happens with the enforcer light carrier? (dauntless with 2 LB instead of WB)

listed on many non official documents with a 120 pt value..
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 04:05:32 AM by Tyberius »

Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 04:11:36 AM »
We could bump it's topside lances to 3 to compensate for lack of firepower.
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 04:18:52 AM »
I dont think theres anything wrong with its stats per se. If anything it should have the option to include its Nova cannon, this would probably help appease some of us that see the problem with the ships as its low AC/Point for IN.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline Bessemer

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2013, 04:24:32 AM »
what would that be for a ship with no frontal weapons, 30/35pts?

Just thought, If it's 25 to give a vengence S6 torps, it's safe to assume it would be the same for other ships with no prow weapons, and the given value to replace the S6 torps with NC is 20pts, that works out at +45pts! 295 for a NC armed Jovian?!...
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 04:32:11 AM by Bessemer »
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R Vote 43: Jovian
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2013, 04:44:56 AM »
That sounds about right :D. No I would think no more than 280pts, 270 is probably more accurate as it only got 1.5 broadside strength but meh it pays a penalty for existing in the first place.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.