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Author Topic: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit  (Read 22921 times)

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2013, 05:03:59 PM »
"Herminus Best" = official Terminus Est weapon battery variant of BFG:R. Consider that my chaos battleship's new name.  ;D

Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2013, 05:55:14 PM »
@afterimagedan & AndrewChristlieb I can't help but feel like the gist of my post was lost somewhere along the line... ::) :)

The battery version is fine and functional, but it is both really distant from the original and really loses the flavour of what makes the terminus est special. The batteries are literally the second least important issue with it, right after it's lack of torpedo defense thing. It's batteries are weak yes, but it is a massive carrier/lance boat. It doesn't have to be great at everything, although cutting the dorsal down to 3 and increasing the side battery by a bit is probably a good compromise (or is it the prow that's a 4 strength? Either way, reduce the bigger one).

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2013, 05:59:21 PM »
I'm not hoping to brush over your statement, Talos, I was just commenting on the awesome new BB name. You bring up a vital point of fluff that should help direct our efforts. As much info as you can from the fluff would be good, especially if you can find quotations.

Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2013, 06:27:53 PM »
@afterimagedan I was just joking around as well....I hope you enjoy what is sure to be Typhus's spiritual successor, Typhoid the Second, Host of the Destroyer Jive and Captain of the Herminus Best.

I will go find my copy of Flight of the Eisenstein and edit this post with the quotations when I find them. If I can find the Typhus short story again I will quote from there too. If anybody can remember what it's called remind me...

Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2013, 08:47:59 PM »
Of course the other option would be to retain the 30cm range at which point 9wb would be just fine imo but you lose your 45cm bump so you might as well drop the dorsal to 3x45cm (4x just doesnt feel right for the dorsals) and boost the speed to 25cm.
"Dorsal Lances/4 45cm" is nothing exceptional. In FAQ2010 the Chaos Battle Barge (aka Vengeful Spirit) had that option for +10pts.
The only unusual thing with "Prow Lances/4 30cm" here is that it's L/F/R.
I think noone will really object if we split the middle ship slot into a launch bay and some weapon batteries (9 in total).

But even if we sum up that rather strange armament... the ship's not getting very powerful (read: "expensive"). To add a load of points we'd have to push the weapon ranges further.

Sadly, I don't think we can yank a 9th lance out of it, without going beyond the usual battleship design... but maybe that's exactly what we need to do.


Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2013, 10:15:49 PM »
Hmmm....reading through Flight of the Eisenstein and the Lexicanum/BBB, and a few things have come up that are not quote worthy but still worth mentioning:

-The Terminus Est is a unique non STC design
-It was impossible to replicate because its energy systems were too advanced (Apocalypse, anyone?)
-Still looking for the best possible page to quote, but there is several references to it having a larger lance array than any ship ever constructed by the imperium, which along with it's launch bays made it the ultimate planetary invasion vessel: it was capable of both massive precision lance strikes and had incomparable launch bay capacity.

But I also found a reference to half of its lance arrays being slow and ponderous, with largely fixed arcs which made it difficult to track smaller (read: the Eisenstein) vessels rapidly.

The Terminus needs to keep a strong lance presence, for uniqueness and fluff purposes. What if the prow mount was made fixed, as in forward facing only? Along with the slightly stronger batteries it now has reduced broadside power but a strong forward firepower, which certainly qualifies as special given its parent fleet (chaos). Along with a slight point jump for its now functioning turrets it should work just fine like that, and if necessary making both the prow and dorsal lances str 3 would not hurt too much, especially if prow cluttering is an issue. Although to be fair, there are several pictures of planetary assault vessels facing their prow towards the target planet, so it seems reasonable to assume the Terminus Est has a fairly radical prow design not fully expressed by the model itself.

 

Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2013, 11:00:07 PM »
Ok... which of you guys started the "adding up to 9"-thingy? I just remembered something:
9 is the sacred number of Tzeentch, and therefore unfitting for one of Nurgle's toys beyond imagination! :P
The sacred number of Nurgle is 7.

So... based on that and on what Talos wrote another approach that doesn't break the hull of a battleship.

Quote
Terminus Est:                       Pts: 455 = (395ship + 60special)

Battleship/13  Speed/20cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Hives/7        60cm
Port/Star Launch/3    Attack craft
Dorsal Lances/4        45cm L/F/R
Prow Lances/3           45cm L/F/R
Prow Launch/1          Attack craft

Special Rules:
- Mark of Nurgle (+1 hit, included above) (+10 pts)
- Miasma of Pestilence (places 1 blast marker along its movement. incoming ordnance and AC counts as flying through a blast marker before attacks are rolled. bombers still subtract the ships turret value from their number of attacks.) (+10 pts)
- Hives of Nurgle (enemy does not get right-shift for being within 15cm) (+5 pts)
- Death Guard CSM (+25 pts)
- Death Guard Terminators (+10 pts)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 11:19:15 PM by Brethren »

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2013, 01:10:35 AM »
Lol, figures. Well then i think 2 p/s launch (standard for one hard point) 14 p/s weps @45cm (7 is really awkward and this is really just like the Repulsive) 3 Dorsal lance @60cm L/F/R, 4 prow lance @30cm F, and 3 launch prow may be in order.  Or lances both@ 45cm and numbers swapped but prow should remain fixed.
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Offline Brethren

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2013, 09:02:27 AM »
As you command... ;)
Quote
Terminus Est:                       Pts: 480 = (420ship + 60special)

Battleship/13  Speed/20cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Hives/14      60cm
Port/Star Launch/2    Attack craft
Dorsal Lances/4        45cm L/F/R
Prow Lances/3           45cm L/F/R
Prow Launch/3          Attack craft

Special Rules:
- Mark of Nurgle (+1 hit, included above) (+10 pts)
- Miasma of Pestilence (places 1 blast marker along its movement. incoming ordnance and AC counts as flying through a blast marker before attacks are rolled. bombers still subtract the ships turret value from their number of attacks.) (+10 pts)
- Hives of Nurgle (enemy does not get right-shift for being within 15cm) (+5 pts)
- Death Guard CSM (+25 pts)
- Death Guard Terminators (+10 pts)

P.S.: I'm still running these through Mogwai's calculator, since there's hardly a ship we can compare it to.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2013, 10:23:56 AM »
Ok... which of you guys started the "adding up to 9"-thingy? I just remembered something:
9 is the sacred number of Tzeentch, and therefore unfitting for one of Nurgle's toys beyond imagination! :P
The sacred number of Nurgle is 7.

So... based on that and on what Talos wrote another approach that doesn't break the hull of a battleship.

Quote
Terminus Est:                       Pts: 455 = (395ship + 60special)

Battleship/13  Speed/20cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Hives/7        60cm
Port/Star Launch/2    Attack craft
Dorsal Lances/4        45cm L/F/R
Prow Lances/3           30cm F
Prow Launch/3          Attack craft

Special Rules:
- Mark of Nurgle (+1 hit, included above) (+10 pts)
- Miasma of Pestilence (places 1 blast marker along its movement. incoming ordnance and AC counts as flying through a blast marker before attacks are rolled. bombers still subtract the ships turret value from their number of attacks.) (+5 pts)
- Hives of Nurgle (enemy does not get right-shift for being within 15cm) (+10 pts)
- Death Guard CSM (+25 pts)
- Death Guard Terminators (+10 pts)

Really? I didn't check, but I thought that the reason the HA made it 3/3/3 was to do with Nurgle's magic number. At least, I thought that's what they said. At 7 I like that profile except I would drop the p/s launchbays to 2 each (use 1 launchbay hardpoint) and increase the prow to 3. There's still some prow bloat then, but it's meant to be a unique, non-STC ship, so it seems fine. Oh, and lock the prow lances forward.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 10:34:57 AM by Sigoroth »

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2013, 05:10:21 PM »
Terminus Est:                       Pts: 480 = (420ship + 60special)

Battleship/13  Speed/20cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Hives/14      60cm
Port/Star Launch/2    Attack craft
Dorsal Lances/4        45cm L/F/R
Prow Lances/3           45cm L/F/R
Prow Launch/3          Attack craft

Special Rules:
- Mark of Nurgle (+1 hit, included above) (+10 pts)
- Miasma of Pestilence (places 1 blast marker along its movement. incoming ordnance and AC counts as flying through a blast marker before attacks are rolled. bombers still subtract the ships turret value from their number of attacks.) (+10 pts)
- Hives of Nurgle (enemy does not get right-shift for being within 15cm) (+5 pts)
- Death Guard CSM (+25 pts)
- Death Guard Terminators (+10 pts)

I think this profile is the answer.

Offline Sigoroth

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2013, 01:27:13 PM »
I would lock the front lances to be forward only.

Offline Talos

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2013, 02:39:28 PM »
@Sigoroth I used to be in the same boat as you for the lances...but geez, we have this thing priced at 480pts! That's...pretty hefty. This thing is almost the same price as a tomb ship at this point, and I have often suspected that necrons would see more play if their capitals were priced a bit more aggressively. Thematically, it should have locked front lances. But at 480pts, this thing is pretty expensive. The thing is about the same price as three lunars or carnages, which is to say the damn thing costs 1/3 of your fleet, more if you include (guaranteed at any point level it sees play) a HQ of any type. I say let's let it be really damn powerful. It's cost will make anyone think twice before including it. ;) 8)

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2013, 04:25:13 PM »
Thats way too expensive... :) this will limit its useful range to the 2k+ range due to the cost,similar to the PK.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline horizon

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Re: BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2013, 07:40:33 PM »
I've seen the Planet Killer with great effect in a 1500pts game.
I, myself, am know to have fielded a Void Dragon with all aboard (thus also ~500pts) in a 1500pts game with great effect.