BFG:R: Terminus Est, Scion of Prospero, and Vengeful Spirit

[Brethren]

The Est would be good with 4 launch hard points but im not sure what comes in the upgrade kit, does it have 4 launch hard points?

As if spare parts would be the big problem here.

Ok. Rather than discussing single stats, rules and costs, I create another entry and you can point out what fits / doesn't fit / is a no-go.
Changes in red. Estimated point values in purple.

Terminus Est:                       Pts: 455 = (420_ship + 35_{special rules})

Battleship/13  Speed/20cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Hives/6       60cm
Port/Star Launch/3    Attack craft
Dorsal Lances/4        45cm L/F/R
Prow Lance/3             45cm L/F/R
Prow Launch/3          Attack craft

Special Rules:
- Mark of Nurgle (+1 hit, included above) (+15 pts)
- Miasma of Pestilence (places 1 blast marker along its movement. incoming ordnance and AC counts as flying through a blast marker before attacks are rolled. bombers still subtract the ships turret value from their number of attacks.) (+15 pts)
- Hives of Nurgle (enemy does not get right-shift for being within 15cm) (+5 pts)

I've thought about the "Miasma hits all incoming things on 5+", but that would contradict the rules of eldar ordnance.

[afterimagedan]

If you have a terminus est, you almost definitely have a fleet to use with it if you care about using it in a game. As such, you have more launch bays.

Why not just model it with 2 launch bays and one hive/battery. Call it 3 on each side (like the styx) and 3 on the prow.  I don't really think the problem is with the launch bays, necessarily, but in the batteries, lances, and special rules.

[Sigoroth]

Why not just model it with 2 launch bays and one hive/battery. Call it 3 on each side (like the styx) and 3 on the prow.

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

I don't really think the problem is with the launch bays, necessarily, but in the batteries, lances, and special rules.

Indeed. I'm certainly in favour of dropping the stupid "can't shoot at torps" rule. Pointless rule is pointless. The batteries can also have their range extended. I would like to reduce the range on the prow lances though as well as decrease the strength to 3, in part due to the bloat on the prow, but also because I like the stepped ranges (60cm broadside, 45cm dorsal, 30cm prow). I wouldn't mind switching the broadside hives from representing WBs to representing lances (str 2@60cmL+R) to make up a little for the loss of range and also give it a very Nurglesque feel (9AC, 9L focus fire).

So my version of the TE would be like so (changes marked in red):

Terminus Est:                       Pts: 445 = (420_ship + 25_{special rules})

Battleship/13  Speed/25cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Hives/2*       60cm
Port/Star Launch/3    Attack craft
Dorsal Lances/4        45cm L/F/R
Prow Lance/3             30cm L/F/R
Prow Launch/3          Attack craft

Special Rules:
- Mark of Nurgle (+1 hit, included above) (+10 pts)
- Miasma of Pestilence (places 1 blast marker along its movement. incoming ordnance and AC counts as flying through a blast marker before attacks are rolled. bombers still subtract the ships turret value from their number of attacks.) (+5 pts)
- Hives of Nurgle (enemy does not get right-shift for being within 15cm) (+10 pts)
 *Counts as lances.

Speed increase is in part to mitigate range loss on prow weapons and also because it's a pre-Despoiler design ... sh!t was just better back then.

Of course, the Hives could just remain WBs and the prow lances could remain at 45cm and the speed could remain at 20cm, this is just my take on it.

[horizon]

Dang, 25cm speed, need to think about that for such a vessel.
So, 2 lances @ 60 + 4 @45 = 6 @ 45 @ 25cm speed, is ... whoa- ish.

[Sigoroth]

Dang, 25cm speed, need to think about that for such a vessel.
So, 2 lances @ 60 + 4 @45 = 6 @ 45 @ 25cm speed, is ... whoa- ish.

Well, as it currently stands it gets nothing at 60cm and is pretty sluggish (20cm speed, 5+ prow armour) but then at 45cm it gets 8 lances and then another 6WB at 30cm. So the official version actually has more firepower at 45cm and under (0-30cm = -1L & +6WB; 30-45cm = +2L, 45-60cm = -2L). So the changes I suggested are actually a slight downgrade. The speed increase is there to make up for this, give it a point of difference over the later (less advanced) Despoilers which were based on it and also give it a chance to get into a position to use even its close ranged guns. Besides, 9 lances at a target is just cool. And 9 is Poppy Nurgle's magic number after all.

[AndrewChristlieb]

I think the Hives would be best if they remained as weapons batteries for consistency with the official document.

How about
9 P/S Hives (weapons batteries, 45cm)
3 P/S launch
3 Prow launch
3 Prow lances (30cm)
3 Dorsal lances (60cm)

That gives a fair amount of firepower in the same stepped format and theres 9's all over it.   

[afterimagedan]

Heck yes. 9 it up. Love it, andrew.

[Sigoroth]

Yeah, I thought of that too Andrew, but I don't see getting either 3AC or 9WB out of a single hardpoint. If it had 2 of each hardpoint (like the Vengeance series CGs) then I could see it.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ya the hardpoint issue had occured to me but I figured its a character ship so give it a little character . Seriously tho with that load out your looking at 1.5 45cm weapons and 1.5 launch, now with that and 3 lefts make a right which corrects a wrong in mind I think a bit of fudging may be in order  .

Of course the other option would be to retain the 30cm range at which point 9wb would be just fine imo but you lose your 45cm bump so you might as well drop the dorsal to 3x45cm (4x just doesnt feel right for the dorsals) and boost the speed to 25cm.

[afterimagedan]

I'm willing to make the fudge. Common, they are Hives of Nurgle dude. 

[Sigoroth]

That would still leave only 7 lances. Perhaps change them to 9WB dorsal and prow.

[AndrewChristlieb]

So Dorsal 9@60cm, Prow 9@45cm, and Port/Star 9@30cm?

[horizon]

That would look cool imo.

[Talos]

I'm really against taking the lances out of the Terminus. From the start the vessel is a massive carrier with a brutal lance array. It's batteries were just an afterthought. If you read the Horus Heresy novels it's mentioned time after time again that it has a massive underslung and dorsal lance array, unmatched by any other battleship. And now ere leaning at taking the lances away? May as well just rename it the Herminus Best and call it a day . It's not like having lances is so against the theme of the Chaos fleet, and even if it was it's a unique vessel. No one is going to spam it.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Herminest Best is a cooler name, we should go with that.