BFG:R Planetary Defenses List

[Mallich]

Can you guys look over this document and see if I have missed anything?

The PDF shows Q-ships as having 1 shield. Is this intentional? In the non-BFG:R rules they quickly got bumped up to 2 shields.

[afterimagedan]

Thanks for the heads up. I'll check into it.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Wah O_o! Fire ships are far from useless. Just like the System ships or Defense moniters their strength is that you dont have to move them, just camp the objective and wait, they'll get their moment to shine and then die brilliantly.

Except that unlike sdf monitors, they have next to nothing by way of guns, armor, shields or HP.  Most people just shoot them dead long before they ever actually do anything, particularly if you camp the objective.   They're generally a waste of points.

Maybe your doing something wrong? Ive never been let down by these, of course I dont just let them hang out to get shot at either...

[BaronIveagh]

Maybe your doing something wrong?

*shrug* dunno.  But every time I've had any, they've never lived long enough to do anything.  Granted, out of the five times I can remember, three were against races who sit back and laugh and point at ships that only have a 15cm speed, one was against Tau who blanketed the board with ord, but even IN just blasted them as soon as they came within 45cm.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Hum Ive only really ever used them against transports or the odd ship that happened by in space. Hide them behind a planet and wait for something to drop to the low orbit table tho and its on like donkey kong . I know theyre good against escorts but theres not many people who will let their escorts get near them, well twice anyway.

Once again this wouldnt be nearly as bad an issue if planetary defenses could take special orders :/ AAF, even +3d6, would nearly double their movement potential and give them a much better strike range.

[horizon]

Haven't any experience with Fireships. But minefields are pretty strong.

[Bessemer]

Yeah the key to using fire ships is low orbit, either as a surprise when coming down, or have them spring up as the enemy closes. Would anyone back a speed increase at an appropriate cost? (speed 20,25pts?)

Once again this wouldnt be nearly as bad an issue if planetary defenses could take special orders :/ AAF, even +3d6, would nearly double their movement potential and give them a much better strike range.

Always ran them as transports in that regard (ie:-1 ld, 3D6 AAF). Is this not the case? whoops

[Dragon Lord]

The Ramilies should definitely be in the list given that the Fortress-Monastery is just a modified Ramilies.  I'm not sure about the inclusion of the Activated Blackstone Fortress though, it may have a 'defence' classification but it isn't really a true defensive installation (particularly as thematically they were used in attacks )

I also agree that planetary defences should be able to go on special orders other than Reload Ordnance, from a thematic stand-point Fire Ships should definitely be able to AAF, racing into the enemy fleet and then exploding is, after all, their raison d'etre.

The balance among the different planetary defences is generally I think a bit broken, the Ramilies is amazing, it costs as much as 2.5 battleships but can punch like 4.  Maybe it suffers a bit more against IN with Nova Cannons, but I've had one decimate a Chaos fleet pretty much single-handedly on several occasions.  Part of this is because unlike all other planetary defences the Ramilies can Brace and Lock On, and with each quadrant individually at that.  Minefields are pretty good and the weapons platforms and torpedo launchers are ok, because they can reach out to large ranges.  The standard Blackstone is also pretty good because it has a tonne of shields and turrets plus AV6, but the mid-range docks and space-stations are rubbish because of their lower shields and armour, plus inability to Brace and shorter ranged weapons.

Dragon Lord

[BaronIveagh]

What do we want to do about the new Ta'Shiro Fortress Stations in the new Codex: Tau Empire?  From the description it's somewhere between a Ramilies and a Craftworld...

[AndrewChristlieb]

I actually like the Orbitals and space stations but we play all static defenses as double launch capacity so that helps.

Minefields can be sick and are rightfully limited.

BSF is also good but its armor is only 5+ like the rest. The ABSF jumps to 6+ armor which I find odd.

I recommend playing through "Above Belis Corona", it drops a nice selection of defenses and is actually quite fun as both attacker and defender.

[Dragon Lord]

What do we want to do about the new Ta'Shiro Fortress Stations in the new Codex: Tau Empire?  From the description it's somewhere between a Ramilies and a Craftworld...

That sounds to me like 'too big to realistically include', at least not outside a custom scenario based around one.  To be honest the Ramilies and Fortress-Monastery (or Ork space hulk for that matter) are verging on that level, they are best used in a scenario that is designed for them, or only as part of very large games.  I think I've only ever used my Ramilies in 4k+ level games.

BSF is also good but its armor is only 5+ like the rest. The ABSF jumps to 6+ armor which I find odd.

Must have been thinking of the Activated Blackstone when I said armour 6+.  I do think all of the defences should have 6+ armour though, one of the whole points of an immobile fortress is you can pile as much armour on it as you want without having to worry about unwieldy manoeuvring.

Dragon Lord

[BaronIveagh]

Yeah the key to using fire ships is low orbit, either as a surprise when coming down, or have them spring up as the enemy closes.

Um, Bessemer, Fireships are a high orbit defense, not a low orbit defense.  IIRC you can't actually use them that way.

That sounds to me like 'too big to realistically include', at least not outside a custom scenario based around one.  To be honest the Ramilies and Fortress-Monastery (or Ork space hulk for that matter) are verging on that level, they are best used in a scenario that is designed for them, or only as part of very large games.  I think I've only ever used my Ramilies in 4k+ level games.

Eh, we do have stats for Craftworlds though, which are even bigger.  The picture for the new Tau orbital cities shows the old model at the core, and huge armored plates and ship sized pods (weapon batteries??) on it.

[Bessemer]

Yeah the key to using fire ships is low orbit, either as a surprise when coming down, or have them spring up as the enemy closes.

Um, Bessemer, Fireships are a high orbit defense, not a low orbit defense.  IIRC you can't actually use them that way.

A house rule if anything. we run as transports, that set up as ships, as opposed to HO defences with the option of hiding in low orbit. Otherwise they're just too vulnerable. Been running that for so long I kind of forgot the original set-up.

IIRC the Craftworld weighed in at 20 hits? Don't know if that was supposed to represent a smaller Craftworld though.

[Dragon Lord]

Eh, we do have stats for Craftworlds though, which are even bigger.

I don't remember any stats for Craftworlds.  Craftworlds should definitely not exist outside a special scenario, they do not get involved in direct combat on a whim.  I would be strongly against including them in the planetary defences list or anywhere else (aside from maybe a special scenario) as aside from anything else any stats are either not going to be properly representative or obscene (or both).

Dragon Lord

[AndrewChristlieb]

Yeah the key to using fire ships is low orbit, either as a surprise when coming down, or have them spring up as the enemy closes.

Um, Bessemer, Fireships are a high orbit defense, not a low orbit defense.  IIRC you can't actually use them that way.

That sounds to me like 'too big to realistically include', at least not outside a custom scenario based around one.  To be honest the Ramilies and Fortress-Monastery (or Ork space hulk for that matter) are verging on that level, they are best used in a scenario that is designed for them, or only as part of very large games.  I think I've only ever used my Ramilies in 4k+ level games.

Eh, we do have stats for Craftworlds though, which are even bigger.  The picture for the new Tau orbital cities shows the old model at the core, and huge armored plates and ship sized pods (weapon batteries??) on it.

Fire ships are setup in high orbit but may enter low orbit, just like and other ship. Basically you just hide them behind the planet until someone enters low orbit then you move them into low orbit right behind them and... boom.

Heh Craftworlds... They used the Seaquest model for the article iirc which is something like 18-24" o_O It was a monster. It was featured in Planet Killer.