BFG:R Battlefleet Bakka

[AndrewChristlieb]

I dont really understand your thinking, of course you dont lose anything to bring in a reserve.

What I was saying is that if the only way to get a carrier is to bring in a reserve then you dont need to put in place a point limitation on them. Saying that you can only have 1 carrier per 750 when you can only get that carrier by buying three other cruisers is redundant. Unless someone is min/maxing for carriers if all carriers are reserves you wont have more than one/750 and even if they min/max for carriers they wont have an effective cruiser force and will lose every benifit of taking a Bakka list.

[afterimagedan]

So, would you move the Dominion to the same sort of position as the Jovian is currently, in that you have to take is as a reserve? I think that would be a good option.

[horizon]

Then how will Bakka look like?

[afterimagedan]

I am thinking basically no changes except Dominion to reserves like Jovian and new point value for names character.  How many people want to try to rework the battleships?

[Bessemer]

Victory: 355. topside batteries at 9 is the common consensus I believe.

 Someone did say that it makes the Apocalypse obsolete, but fluff-wise that's exactly what it is, a more modern version of an ancient design. Seeing as it's only available in the Bakka list I don't see it being a problem, especially with the Apocalypse's BFGR rules

Vanquisher: As the 2010 comp has it.

 It's supposed to be a budget battleship and at 300pts you can't exactly complain about it.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Dominion needs to be moved to another list if anything, making it a Bakka only reserve unnecessarily restricts it from any other list. By moving it to another list you keep it freely available to all lists but increase the restriction on them for Bakka. 

[afterimagedan]

I don't think we should add it to the other lists, sorry. It's a Bakka ship, I think it should stay there. What reason do you think we should move it to the other lists?

[AndrewChristlieb]

If you remove it from the Bakka list and make it a Bakka reserve like the Jovian it will only ever be able to be taken in the Bakka list as opposed to right now where it can be taken by any list (as reserve). Adding it to the Solar and/or Bastion list wouldn't be a game breaking change to any of the lists and would allow Bakka to still take them, as reserves. 

[afterimagedan]

But why do you want other lists to be able to take them instead of just having them as reserves?

[Vaaish]

What I was saying is that if the only way to get a carrier is to bring in a reserve then you dont need to put in place a point limitation on them. Saying that you can only have 1 carrier per 750 when you can only get that carrier by buying three other cruisers is redundant. Unless someone is min/maxing for carriers if all carriers are reserves you wont have more than one/750 and even if they min/max for carriers they wont have an effective cruiser force and will lose every benifit of taking a Bakka list.

Sorry, it seemed like you were adding in the cost of prerequisites to boost the effective cost of taking a reserve ship. The point I was trying to make was that if you are taking ships that fill the requirements it's not really adding to the cost of taking the reserve ship.

On bakka, the dominion fluff seems to indicate it belongs in the bakka fleet, but its exceptionally rare, maybe not nearly so as the Jovian, but still rare. Because all other carriers in the bakka fleet either require special rules or come in as reserves, why not just make it a blanket rule that any carrier in the bakka fleet comes in via reserve rules due to the aversion to using ac?

[afterimagedan]

I'm fine with that change, Vaaish. I think that's the best option so far. Basically, the only change we need to make is instead of jovian being taken as a reserves ship, ALL carriers are taken as reserves ships.

[Bessemer]

Even the Admech defiant? I'd leave that unrestricted. But other than that it's the best solution thus far.

[Vaaish]

There needs to be the distinction between carriers being reserves and carriers requiring a reserve slot to take.

The Jovian is a reserve to the bakka fleet which means it can't be taken by other IN lists. If you do the same for all bakka ships, things like the dominion can't be used outside of bakka.

Unless that isn't an issue, then by all means just have all carriers taken as reserves.

[AndrewChristlieb]

But why do you want other lists to be able to take them instead of just having them as reserves?

Because if you make them a reserve then they can not be taken by any list except for Bakka. Under the proposed reserve rule, just like the Jovian, if i want to take a Dominion in say a Gothic sector list im sol as only a Bakka list would be able to take the ship. 

[afterimagedan]

Gotcha, forgot about that. So, basically, all we need to do is add a rule that says that taking any ship with launch bays will need to be taken as if they are reserves?  Do we want to exclude Defiants?