BFG:R Vote 41: Relictor, Desecrator, Conqueror, Wages of Sin

[afterimagedan]

Desecrator: 365 pts

Battleship/12  Speed/20cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Launch/2 Attack craft
Port/Star Lances/4 45cm
Dorsal Weapons/9 60cm
Prow Torpedoes/9 30cm

I think this, with the 20cm speed would be acceptable at 365. The Wage of Sin with these same stats and adding the Mark and CSM at 410.


Relictor: 300 pts

Battleship/12  Speed/25cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Weapons/12 30cm
Port/Star Lances/2 30cm
Dorsal Weapons/9 60cm
Prow Torpedoes/9 30cm

Two lances/ side for 300. Conqueror with the same stats and Bezerker Horde (reprinted below) for 360.

As part of its cost, it embarks Chaos Space Marines with the Mark of Khorne, following all rules for Chaos Space Marines in this document It also embarks a retinue of Khorne Bezerkers, giving it a boarding modifier of +2 in addition to its improved boarding value. It is embarked with Chosen Terminators and may roll 2D6 and pick the highest D6 when conducting a teleport Hit and Run attack each turn.

The Relictor and Conqueror have +D6cm to AAF special orders (Improved Thrusters).

[AndrewChristlieb]

Wow!!! Those will be flying with +1D6 inches!!! I think you ment centimeters .

[afterimagedan]

Balls... I changed it.

[harec]

So if i understand right the conqueror will have boarding value of 32 and +2 for marines+2 for berzerkers? If it is like that i think it is a like bit to muchn . If it just +2 i think it is maybe not enought. Maybe +3 would be better.

[Brethren]

So if i understand right the conqueror will have boarding value of 32 and +2 for marines+2 for berzerkers?

I don't get what you're adding here.
(12_hits + 2_marines + 2_berzerkers)x2_khorne = 32_{boarding value}

The difference between 28 and 32 is not that significant. It's still 2x that of a battleship, 3x that of a cruiser. Only grand cruisers and light cruisers get a better modifier. The most important thing in adding +2 for berzerkers is that you can't get that boarding value down as easy by damaging the ship.

I'd like to add that this modifier is a FAQ2010-rule and not made up.

[harec]

So if i understand right the conqueror will have boarding value of 32 and +2 for marines+2 for berzerkers?

I don't get what you're adding here.
(12_hits + 2_marines + 2_berzerkers)x2_khorne = 32_{boarding value}

The difference between 28 and 32 is not that significant. It's still 2x that of a battleship, 3x that of a cruiser. Only grand cruisers and light cruisers get a better modifier. The most important thing in adding +2 for berzerkers is that you can't get that boarding value down as easy by damaging the ship.

I'd like to add that this modifier is a FAQ2010-rule and not made up.

I will repeat it . (12hits+4turrets)x2=32 and then you roll a dice and apart from the +whatever they have because of the boarding value they have +4 to the roll dice a bit to much.

[harec]

Just to clarify is not the same” boarding value” and “boarding modifier”. A higher “boarding value” will give you a higher “boarding modifier”.

[AndrewChristlieb]

As stated i just copied the text from the FAQ2010 Powers of Chaos pdf. Perhapse there is cause to modify the bonuses? Iirc i believe the Conq and Est were the only barges to get extra rules beyond just having marks or csm included.

As it sits now your looking at: 12x2+1 (Chaos) +1 (Csm) +2 (Khorne berzerkers) +d6 for a total of 29-34, if someone is dumb enough to board this ship they deserve to get that extra 4 but i think we should base any discussion on the far more likely scenario of it boarding not the other way around.

[harec]

wait wait wait what? 

the boarding value is for obtaining the dice modifier(or I dont understand the rules of boarding). example.
vs emperor.
boarding value (12+4)*2 vs 12+5, just higher.
modifiers(considering no blast markers and damage)+2 marines+2 bezerker tide +1(more boarding value)vs nothing.
So 1d6+5 vs 1d6

vs retribution
boarding value (12+4)*2 vs 12+4
in this case it would be 1d6+6 vs 1d6 because it doubles the boarding value.

This is how the boarding rules are explained in spanish, does it change in the BFGR?

in this case it wouldn´t be reasonable to board this monster without softening it , maybe 2 hive ships together or a great group of krakens

[Bessemer]

Harec's got it right, that is how it works, unless your working from the original BFGR (never did get round to giving it a good look through)

[AndrewChristlieb]

No, only the ship being boarded adds their turrets, unless this is changed in the faq and i missed it.

So you would be looking at Conqueror: (12x2)+(1d6+4[chaos,csm,khorne]+ any additional modifiers such as higher boarding value, blast markers, etc) thats a base of 28+1d6

Emperor: (12+5)+(1D6+any additional modifiers) thats a base of 17+1d6 *when being boarded.

[Bessemer]

The wording and presentation in the boarding rules is confusing.

The boarding VALUE of a ship, including multipliers like the MOK are used to work out a vessels BONUS for it's D6 roll to resolve boarding.

In your example it would be

Conqueror: +2 marines
                   +2 Beserkers
                   +1 own boarding value higher (24 vs 17)
Total modifier of +5. Roll D6+5 to resolve boarding               

Emperor: no bonuses
Total modifier +0. Roll D6 to resolve boarding

highest roll wins and does the difference in scores in damage to the loser

The actual boarding VALUE is the ships current hits. It is this number the MOK would double. If the Conqueror had been boarded it's boarding VALUE would have been 28 (12x2+4) to the Emperors 12, more than double the VALUE, giving a Boarding BONUS of +2, for a total BONUS of +6

I see where you are coming from though, the wording could be clearer, and the method you gave above is what I used to use for years until it was pointed out to me by a GW staffer.

This is how I read it anyway, please post to agree/beat with stick so this can be resolved

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ah I see. I wonder how many people make that mistake!! That really changes everything I know about boarding now :/. Thank you for pointing this out!

After rereading the section I dont know how we could have misread that either :/ of course after the first few games and you "know" something you dont tend to check again . I blaim our GW guy (I cant remember what they were called!) that always pushed the new games with demos and such . The bad thing is everyone I know plays this way so probably around 20 or so people from where I used to live, the few I play around with now and everyone Ive played with on Vassal . Time to start spreading the news

[Bessemer]

After rereading the section I dont know how we could have misread that either :/ of course after the first few games and you "know" something you dont tend to check again

Aint that the truth

[Sigoroth]

Those berserkers are too much . A flat +2 over the +2 given by CSM? I could possibly see it as a once per game thing, but otherwise it's too powerful. Even a flat +1 is quite strong (as evidenced by Nids with their BM rule).