BFG:R Vote 40: Relictor and Desecrator Stats/Cost

[afterimagedan]

How many battleships does Chaos have now?

These are basically 2 battleships that are non-character versions of the character ships.  So, they are sort of different ships, but sort of the same sort of thing.

[AndrewChristlieb]

If these two are accepted that would bring the total Chaos battleships to 4, not counting the PK or any of the CSM barges.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Desecrator: 365 pts

Battleship/12  Speed/20cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Launch/2 Attack craft
Port/Star Lances/4 45cm
Dorsal Weapons/9 60cm
Prow Torpedoes/9 30cm

I think this, with the 20cm speed would be acceptable at 365. The Wage of Sin with these same stats and adding the Mark and CSM at 410.


Relictor: 300 pts

Battleship/12  Speed/25cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Weapons/12 30cm
Port/Star Lances/2 30cm
Dorsal Weapons/9 60cm
Prow Torpedoes/9 30cm

Two lances/ side for 300. Conqueror with the same stats and Bezerker Horde (reprinted below) for 360.

As part of its cost, it embarks Chaos Space Marines with the Mark of Khorne, following all rules for Chaos Space Marines in this document It also embarks a retinue of Khorne Bezerkers, giving it a boarding modifier of +2 in addition to its improved boarding value. It is embarked with Chosen Terminators and may roll 2D6 and pick the highest D6 when conducting a teleport Hit and Run attack each turn.

How do these sound?

Once were done with these ships should we standardize the other CSM barges also? The Scion and Est are hot messes and dont match their profile pictures, and the VS isnt much better.

[afterimagedan]

I agree with those profiles but reluctantly, so long as the conqueror and the relictor get the massive an improved thrusters qualities. If those are included, I would vote yes most definitely. This profile for the desecrator gives it more distinction between it and the despoiler, weapons wise. I like it.

Also, yes, I agree about the other character ships.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Improved thrusters is the +1d6 AAF right? Given the role they were designed for and the age of the vessels I could see them having something like that. If everyone else is ok with that then Id say go for it. Massive is the "cannot take CTNH" right? Dont all battleships have that anyway?

[afterimagedan]

Yes and yes. The Relictor has the +d6 AAF in the current bfgr profile. Massive is a given for battleship status. I'll put up the vote tomorrow.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Oh, it sure is. Just one more reason to do away with those "qualities" unless you have a cheat sheet or its a really common one theyre very confusing.

[horizon]

The term qualities like massive still make me shudder.

[Brethren]

I agree... on terms with the Desecrator, the Wage of Sin, the Relictor, the Conqueror, the Improved Thrusters and that 'qualities' thing.

[Sigoroth]

So like this?

Relictor:

Battleship/12  Speed/25cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Weapons/12 30cm
Port/Star Lances/2 30cm
Dorsal Weapons/9 45cm
Prow Torpedoes/9 30cm

I could get behind this at 300 too

Desecrator:

Battleship/12  Speed/25cm  Turns/45*  Shields/4  Armor/5+  Turrets/4

Port/Star Launch/2 Attack craft
Port/Star Lances/4 45cm
Dorsal Weapons/9 60cm
Prow Torpedoes/9 30cm

Im still not sure whats a good price for this, it seems like it should be high tho, higher than 365 anyway.

If those were the set stats the what would the Conq and WoS look like? Would they remain as they are (3 lance on the Conq and 3 launch on the WoS) or would they be modded to follow the base ships?

Yeah, I think these are both reasonable, though I'd whack 5 more points on the Desecrator (Desolator + 4 AC (25 x 4) - 15cm range on lances (15 x 2) = +~70 pts). The Conq and WoS should be based on these classes. My objections to those 2 character ships are the same as I had for the above, ie, the str 8 dorsal guns and the "combi-deck".

In fact, I wouldn't even include the character ships as a separate entry, but rather have them simply as named ships that have X upgrades for Y points.

[horizon]

That last part is actually a good idea. Or keep the character ships to a special pdf with only character ships?

[Talos]

Both of those would be good ideas. Although having them as an upgrade is the tidiest option, because each one has some unique rules it would probably be best just to include them in a separate pdf...otherwise we risk having sidebars bigger than the original ships entry!

[Brethren]

Both of those would be good ideas. Although having them as an upgrade is the tidiest option, because each one has some unique rules it would probably be best just to include them in a separate pdf...otherwise we risk having sidebars bigger than the original ships entry!

Voice of caution here. Keep an eye on the big picture and don't get lost in the details.
While the upgrade idea works fine with the Conqueror, the Wages of Sin and maybe even the Scion of Prospero (simplified as a Despoiler), it definately won't work with the Terminus Est, since that ship's armament doesn't even come close to any regular battleship.
So... the Scion could get and the Terminus has to get a seperate entry in [enter pdf name here]. I'd say give the other two a entry of their own, too.

[Talos]

@Brethren Don't worry we agree here! I think the separate pdf might be a good idea.

[afterimagedan]

What's the point of having it as a separate document? People will just keep the pages of the character ship with the Chaos PDF anyways. Might as well just have it in the same document, even if we want to separate it out from the basic ships.