BFG:R Daemon Ships

[afterimagedan]

Compare the Despoiler to the Desolator. 15pt difference. Yes, there probably won't be tons of games where you can bring in a Desoiler, but it is possible. i think the small differences are important enough to not polish over.

[AndrewChristlieb]

They all have a pretty big range really even the cruisers. Of course the problem with doing 15% is in that some ships are just more naturally suited to this like the Slaughter and its much cheaper, 190pts compared to 220pts for a Despoiler?

[afterimagedan]

They all have a pretty big range really even the cruisers. Of course the problem with doing 15% is in that some ships are just more naturally suited to this like the Slaughter and its much cheaper, 190pts compared to 220pts for a Despoiler?

Well, putting the Devastation (the ship I assume you meant) close to the enemy is also hugely powerful. You do make a good point though, and the Slaughter is really the ship that puts the wrench in the works.

Another reason the 15% works is how carried the prices on the grand cruiser and battlecruisers are. Styx and hades would have a 10pt difference by percentage. Same with the Retaliator and Executor. Anyways, I could go either way and not be too bothered by it, despite my preference.

If we go with set prices, I would do this and be happy with it:

Battleships 50
Grand Cruisers 35
Heavy Cruisers 30
Cruisers 25

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ya Devistation... Im not sure where I went wrong there .

Any of the carriers will be nasty as Daemons with the MoK and Bezerker Tide.

Turn 1, deploy spectral. Turn 2, move within 15cm hit them with any weapons in arc then launch ordy +d3 and finish off with a teleport hit and run. Turn 4, forced to reload move in and board. If somethings not dead after that it should be hurting.

[afterimagedan]

You also bring up another gold point: marks can highly increase the effectiveness of a daemon ship upgrade. This again pushed me back toward the percentage camp.

[horizon]

However, a carrier as a daemonship is a risk due its expense and possible loss of effectiveness. Roll a 1, no vessel, fail Ld, less Attack Craft.

On a sidenote.... who commands the attack craft on a daemonship carrier? Small familiars? Small Daemons? Pink Horrors & Bloodletters.
Kinda weird.

[Neferhet]

@horizon
Attack craft are daemons! Flying storming frigging daemons!!! Kill it with fire! 

@afterimagedan
your points costs are somewhat steep. May I suggest to unite cruiser & Heavy Cruisers in a single category for +20 pts and put Grand Cruisers to +30? BB could stay +50.

[afterimagedan]

Considering how much of a boost to daemon ships are getting by not being shot at before acting, I think those point costs are warranted. 25pts to drop a slaughter into enemy lines with no ramifications is totally worth it. The 2+ is a possible downside, but a not so common one. Not getting to fire for the first turn or two is crappy, but its still totally protected too. It will be able to pop in right at an enemy weak spot. I'm still willing to be persuaded, but I don't see 25, 30, 35, 50 being all that steep

[AndrewChristlieb]

Ya I think those prices are a good point to start playtesting.

[Neferhet]

sorry, in fact, when I posted my comment, I was still thinking about the 1/1000 limitation. Being the 25% limit used those prices are just good. My tought was that in most games you would be just using 1 Dship, so it should also be quite "cheap". I should point out that, with current limit system, in a 1500 pts game you can pop 2 Demon Slaughter behind enemy lines...that makes me whorry...anyhow, i'll try to have a couple of games to test this iteration.
Cheers

[horizon]

2 daemonships is 2 less normal ships to deal with.

[Neferhet]

@horizon: well, at 1500 pts i would be rather unsettled by two cheap Slaughter popping behind my back stabbing the hell out of my fleet...  but it was just to say.

[Khar]

Seeing as Slaughter, costing only 165 pts, is noted as a problem, what about fixed price but based on the cost of more expensive vessels? +30 for cruisers maybe?

No differance over 15% for most of the more expensive vessels and makes problematic slaughter a bit more costly.

[Neferhet]

But makes any other Cruiser choice really painful. 200 pts for a Murder? no, thanks.
Altough i'm not complaining about the limitation we've set, the 1/1000 would have handled this problem better. If you field a cheap ship at 1500, you cannot squeeze another in, cause you can have only 1 for FULL 1000 pts.

[Brethren]

But makes any other Cruiser choice really painful. 200 pts for a Murder? no, thanks.

I second that. I'd rather use +30pts to turn a Murder into a Hades.
Everyone knows Slaughters are nasty... but they still are with or without a Daemon on board.

I don't get what's wrong with the point tables we already have. Okay, BFG:R (+40 / +30 / +20 / +20) may be too cheap, but the Armada (+50 / +30 / +25 / +20) still sounds reasonable.



P.S.: Sorry for that confusion with the movement part. Mea culpa. I'm happy as long as the Daemon can move. So... I'm happy right now.