BFG:R Daemon Ships

[afterimagedan]

@afterimagedan
I'm ok with the scatter.
just saying that it does not provides me any disruption.
 If I want to be near a ship, i place myself near that ship.
Then, even if I scatter 24cm, i'm just 4 cm (at worst) from where i wanted to be. I'm sorry, but i can't see how this scatter can disaturb me if i can autocorrect it moving after appearing (tha avarage chaos cruiser has 25 cm of move, so...)

About the pricing: 10% seems pretty good to me with a extra +15 pts for battleships, maybe

Try it in a game and you will see why it's a disruption from getting to the optimal place. If you scatter 24cm, you are 24cm from where you COULD have been had you not scattered. If you didn't scatter, you could have positioned your ship much better to take advantage of boarding, close ranged shooting, etc.

[afterimagedan]

10% of cost seems... a bit low? We need to get to a point that we can agree on everything before attempting to price. I do like the idea of a percantage based cost structure but then I think there are some obvious choices for this and theyre not all expensive to begin with. The Slaughter for example is the cheapest cruiser and one of the most obvious choices, this will make it much more effective than say a Carnage or even an Acheron or Hades so why should it be cheaper?

My problem with the scatter is as stated, its pointless. I scatter 24cm, place my ship on an approach that will intercept the enemy cruiser and proceed to compleatly negate the scatter... It should be noted that when I read deployment during the Movement phase I was thinking that it could deploy but not move, hense why I stated that it would deploy at the end of the Movement phase, after any actual movement.

I think my previous post answers this. If you scatter, you can "negate" the scatter by getting back to where you were, but with no scatter, you could have gone much further ahead and positioned yourself where you wanted. If we want to go with no moving in the first movement phase, then the scatter isn't as important. If we want to give the ship the ability to move when it arrives as spectral in the first turn, we should have a scatter.

[AndrewChristlieb]

Once again I dont see the point of the scatter, but due to this I also dont have a problem retaining it.

[afterimagedan]

I would add that I am OK with us not using a scatter if we don't allow the ship to move in the first turn it arrives.

[horizon]

No move? Then scatter it should be.

[AndrewChristlieb]

So no scatter, cant move on the turn it appears but can move in subsequent turns? Thats fine by me.

[afterimagedan]

So no scatter, cant move on the turn it appears but can move in subsequent turns? Thats fine by me.

Yeah I think that's the best. Basically, the Chaos player can put it where it wants, but the enemy will have a turn to try to set up a counter attack or a turn to oh sh*t and get the hell out of there. That way, the -1 to LD can be guaranteed an effect, which I think is cool.

[horizon]

Disagree.

If it can't move it counts as a defence on the gunnery chart -> deer in the headlight syndrom.

I thought we wanted to make the daemon ship a proper choice?

[afterimagedan]

Disagree.

If it can't move it counts as a defence on the gunnery chart -> deer in the headlight syndrom.

I thought we wanted to make the daemon ship a proper choice?

It can't be shot at at that point because it's a spectral ship though.

[horizon]

Wait..

so... turn 2 I decide to become solid (in the end phase? or in the movement phase? if in movement phase what happens in shooting phase?).

No scatter.

Ship does not move at a distance of 5cm of IN cruiser.

IN cruiser moves 20cm, but cannot shoot at d-vessels as it is still somewhat spectral.

Chaos turn again: ship solid. May it make special orders? By rules, yes it seems.
Locks On. Moves 12-25cm (or 15-30 for Slaughter) to get best shooting position.

Boom boom.

Correct?

[afterimagedan]

I think the special order should be replaced with the Ld test to fire at full firepower.

So, turn 1: put the ship within 20cm of any capital ship on the board with whatever facing you want. It's spectral now.
Enemy player turn 1: can't shoot at the daemon ship because it's spectral. -1 Ld aura in effect from spectral so this could hinder the enemy fleet.
Chaos player turn 2: 2+ to become solid if the chaos player wants to. If not, can move as normal but nothing else (to continue the -1Ld aura if they want to and to keep safe while spectral). If solid, it's at half firepower. take a Ld test when it becomes solid, pass=full FP. No special orders (or else a lock on would be a bit overpowered)

[horizon]

As you write it:
The d-vessels becomes solid but cannot move in that turn but it can shoot in that turn at full or half power depending on Ld test?

So an IN vessel cannot escape a Chaos vessel with long range lances unless it goes on AAF.


edit: I find no move but do shoot kinda clunky in terms of game mechanics.

[afterimagedan]

Sorry, I meant that it can always move. When it's spectral, it cannot use special orders. The turn it wants to turn solid, it cannot use special orders, may become solid on a 2+, and can roll a Ld test to fire at full firepower instead of half. It can always move, but can't shoot when spectral.

[horizon]

Seriously confused now.

Andrew's comment:

So no scatter, cant move on the turn it appears but can move in subsequent turns? Thats fine by me.

Your (afterimageDan) reply :

Yeah I think that's the best

Could you please write your intent step by step. I know I am being iffy but it is kinda important. 

[afterimagedan]

Sorry, I would like to see it be able to move but not fire when spectral. I guess I didn't read Andrew's comment clearly enough.