September 12, 2024, 12:12:39 AM

Author Topic: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game  (Read 5642 times)

Offline ElectricPaladin

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I just got to play my first real game of Battlefleet Gothic! It was a ton of fun, and I am - as I said to my opponent at the close of the game - very eager to expand my collection and learn to be actually good at this game.

I won't go into a detailed battle report, because I'll probably get too many things wrong, but here's the most important lessons I feel I have learned:

 1) My Chaos collection is just fine. There are a couple of things I could add if I really wanted to, like devestations or murders, but I can build a powerful, killy fleet with the stuff I have.
 2) My Imperial collection, on the other hand, just isn't as good. I have decided to do the following:

ʉۢ Replace my dominator with a tyrant. The slightly better firepower of the dominator just isn't worth losing access to the torpedoes of the tyrant... which help the tyrant work better with the gothic, which is the primary purpose of my second cruiser, anyway. A second nova cannon... the problem seems to be that while it's powerful, it prevents me from using the core strategy of the Imperial fleet effectively. Luckily the conversion is pretty easy, even post-painting.
ʉۢ I need to two or three dauntlesses. Apparently, dauntlesses are nice because they are the Imperial ship that doesn't fight like an Imperial ship (versatile, mobile, fast, rather than relatively slow and heavily armed). My opponent informs me that, additionally, a dauntless makes a good escort for a battleship, because it's mobile enough that it can play the midfield game, helping out the cruisers, and still whip around and back up the battleship if it ends up in danger.
ʉۢ I need cobras, but slightly less than I need the dauntlesses.

 3) Upping my ordinance game is important to playing Imperials. Once I turn my dominator into a tyrant, I'll be able to play some very sneaky games with torpedoes and nova cannons, as well as softening up the opponent to receive my steam-roller like charge through the center of his fleet.
 4) And, finally, a tactical note about the use of attack craft. If I have more bays than my opponent, I should play offensively with waves of bombers (for the capital ships) and shark boats (for the escorts) protected by fighters. If my opponent has more bays, I should just give up and play defensively with fighters on CAP. There's no middle ground - either you dominate or you lose.

What do you think of these lessons? Am I learning the right things?

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 03:28:10 AM »
Those are some good insights! I highly support 2 torpedo Dauntlesses. Having those in the fleet can be very helpful for adding a bunch of torpedo power to your fleet with a 90 degree turn. That's one of the reasons they are awesome at protecting a battleship. Glad to hear the game went well! What ships did you use?

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 03:30:19 AM »
Those are some good insights! I highly support 2 torpedo Dauntlesses. Having those in the fleet can be very helpful for adding a bunch of torpedo power to your fleet with a 90 degree turn. That's one of the reasons they are awesome at protecting a battleship. Glad to hear the game went well! What ships did you use?

My Imperial list was:

Ld 9 Admiral, 2 Re-Rolls
Mars-Class Battlecruiser (w/Sharks)
Dominator-Class Cruiser
Gothic-Class Cruiser (w/Ram)
3 Firestorms
3 Swords

And the Chaos list that stomped all over it:

Chaos Warmaster (MoK)
Chaos Lord (MoK)
Styx-Class Heavy Cruiser
Slaughter-Class Cruiser
Slaughter-Class Cruiser
3 Idolators
3 Infidels

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 03:34:13 AM »
Nice! Good fleets.

Offline horizon

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 05:40:41 AM »
Dominator > Tyrant
Because Gothic fights at 30cm and Dominator as well.
Tyrants 45cm range is wasted
by original rules, BFG:R fixes this.
edit: you use Sharks on Mars, thus BFG:R, right?

Instead of Gothic/Tyrant because of your torpedo wish I advice two Lunars squadroned instead.

Dauntless is good, yes.

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 05:54:33 AM »
You don't need BFG:R for sharks. Any Imperial carrier can take them? I thought. I'll have to check.

Your reasons influenced my initial choice, but the lack of torpedoes really hurt. What does BFG:R provide? A Dominator variant with torpedoes?

Offline horizon

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 06:31:38 AM »
Under official rules only the Emperor & Oberon BB can take sharks.

If you want more torpedoes and the Mars provides the initial NC shot I think two Lunars would be your best bet (under official rules).

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 06:51:50 AM »
Under official rules only the Emperor & Oberon BB can take sharks.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If you want more torpedoes and the Mars provides the initial NC shot I think two Lunars would be your best bet (under official rules).

Here's, more or less, what my opponent today said, and I agree:

A tyrant and a gothic are roughly equivalent to two lunars, but the difference is that with a tyrant and a gothic, you have a really great lance boat and a really great gunboat. When you lose one, you still have a single great ship, you just need to work a little harder and use the rest of your list to keep it supported, whereas previously you could count on its now-destroyed partner to make it effective.

On the other hand, when you have two lunars, you have two mediocre multi-purpose boats. Together, they are just as powerful as a lance boat and a gunboat together, but when you lose one, all you have is one mediocre ship.

Offline horizon

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 07:00:21 AM »
Not entirely.

2 Lunars or 1 Gothic + 1 Dominator for that matter is: 12wb + 4lances per broadside.
With the Tyrant you lose 2wb per broadside. Not a lot... but:

2 Lunars = 360pts
Gothic + Dominator = 370pts
Gothic + Tyrant = 365pts

However to have some extra use to the Tyrant you must upgrade the range, so you are talking about a 375pts combo, thus being most expensive and least guns.
The Dominator is just great for the massed weapon batteries and the cheap nova cannon.

I do agree that the Lunars must be squadroned to be effective, which has some good but also bad effects.

Offline Talos

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2013, 03:10:54 PM »
Being a primarily IN player myself, I can say with some certainty that Lunar have been pretty underwhelming for me as well. To be fair however, I really only played them against Eldar any real amount, and their firepower is bound to seem mediocre compared to those monstrosities the eldar call escorts. Particularly due to the fact that its hard to focus multiple ships on one of theirs due to their maneuverability and that lances are not the greatest against those pointy-eared gits ;D...but still.

Not sure how I feel about them so far....although I may change my opinion towards the better after I try them out against my regular opponents rapidly approaching construction chaos and expanding tau fleet.

On topic, good job on your first game. So you favor your torpedoes, eh? I'm more of a mixed assault kind of guy, probably why I like mixed Nova/Torpedoes in my fleet. And why I like FW tau.

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2013, 04:23:46 PM »
I think I like mixed nova/torpedoes, too. The list I was playing had too much nova and not enough torp. Nova cannons are great, but they're only effective during one part of each game. After that, they're dead weight. Also, they are way more effective alongside torpedo herding.

I think.

Offline Koshi

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 04:29:23 PM »
Well, I don't have tried a NC Fleet list. But I usally field two NCs at 2k-Games. Like it on my Mars and on my Dominator. And it functions well enough for me.

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2013, 08:30:46 PM »
So, I recently came into about $35. Which would you recommend as my next purchase?

 1) Two dauntlesses (probably one of each - and probably one built with the admech kit - but I'm open to suggestions).
 2) One dauntless, one pack of cobras.
 3) Something else (explain).

Thanks!

Offline Koshi

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Re: Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2013, 09:20:48 PM »
One Lance-Dauntless, as buddy for the Firestorms. One pack of Cobras - good escorts so far.

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Tactical, List Composition, and Collection Lessons from my First Real Game
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 09:24:33 PM »
Also, I suppose I could get a strike cruiser or two to start my Space Marine fleet and use the Segmentum Solar list... though I'm much less excited about that possibility.