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Author Topic: Learning From 40k 6th  (Read 3176 times)

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Learning From 40k 6th
« on: January 16, 2013, 06:13:06 PM »
There are two concepts from 6th Edition 40k that I think could be fun: warlord traits (random or chosen) and mysterious terrain. Does anyone out there agree and have any ideas for how these rules could be achieved in BFG?

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2013, 12:11:00 AM »
There has been a good bit of discussion on ideas similar to the warlord traits, im not too sure what the the mysterious terrain is tho.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 06:16:54 AM »
Mysterious terrain is terrain features that have a basic profile (ie. a river). Whenever a model comes within a certain distance of the terrain feature, you roll a die. Depending on the result, the terrain feature could be normal, good for whoever's inside it, bad, or just plain weird. 40k examples include forests that might turn out to be full of creatures that attack you, or might be composed of extraordinarily hard trees that provide a better cover save.

So, there could be a gas cloud. What kind? It's probably just a normal gas cloud, but if your ship flies into it (or gets near enough to it, or rolls Leadership to scan it or something), you roll a die and it turns out that it's... a normal gas cloud. Or an explosive gas cloud that will do extra damage to you! Or it's full of weird radiation that screws with your sensors and gives you a leadership penalty! Or there's a warp rift hiding in the gas cloud that will let you teleport to another part of the board! Whee!

This is definitely not a system I'd apply to all games, but in the right kind of game - the right level of serious, set in the right part of space - it could be fun.

Offline Talos

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 02:10:56 PM »
Both really cool points; me and Thane have been playing aroud with the idea of integral commanders, i.e. they cost no points, they just come at a pre-determined level, something like:

749pts or less: No leader (1 Re-roll)
750pts to 1250pts: Ld 8 (1 Re-roll)
1251 to 1999: Ld 9 (2 Re-roll)
2000+: Ld 10 (3 Re-roll)

We had also thought about individual "warlord traits:, if you will but our thought process had been...inconclusive.
I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

As for mysterious terrain, implementation should be easy enough...

Offline ThaneAquilon

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 02:01:34 AM »
I'm not a huge fan of mysterious terrain because the are some fleets that utilise terrain way more than others. In 40k all armies are likely to hug terrain. In BFG, Eldar are way more likely to mess about with terrain than say IN. IN will hide behind it, but Eldar have rules to make it easier to go into it. So making terrain suddenly have the ability to kill them...you're taking away an advantage, and giving a disadvantage.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 02:46:12 AM »
So making terrain suddenly have the ability to kill them...you're taking away an advantage, and giving a disadvantage.

This.

Offline ElectricPaladin

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 02:49:12 AM »
So making terrain suddenly have the ability to kill them...you're taking away an advantage, and giving a disadvantage.

This.

I see your point. Forgive me - I'm definitely quite new to this game, and I probably shouldn't be contemplating rules changes while I still understand the game so poorly. The only fleet's I'm terribly familiar with are the Tau, Chaos, and Imperial fleets.

I'll chew on this for a while as I learn the game better. Honestly, I'm beginning to move away from the thought that complicating terrain would be a good idea. The terrain rules that we already have provide a surprising amount of variability. It might be nice to have some neat, stranger "sci-fi-ish" terrain types... but I'm not sure it would provide as much color as I had initially thought, with the variety we already have.

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 02:53:26 AM »
Idk it sounds pretty cool. You could set it up like Clue with hidden cards and once a player gets within a certain distance they can view the card. Ive got a selection of alternate terrain rules that would be a good starting point here: http://afterimagedan.blogspot.com/2012/04/additional-scenery-rules.html?m=0 (shameless plug!).
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 02:56:26 AM »
See, that makes sense. I just think you should know what's what before you get into it. I love andrewchristlieb's scenery rules on his link.

Offline Talos

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 04:45:13 AM »
@ElectricPaladin Nah, keep posting crazy stuff buddy. If this forum has taught me anything, its that being a veteran is actually somewhat stifling to proper creativity. :D

No seriously, the more experienced players seldom think of ways to improve the game in new directions, preferring to refine what already exists. Better to have new players shoot out the interesting ideas and have the older players temper those suggestions with wisdom and experience. That's how the game improves, through the combination of the two processes. 8)

Offline afterimagedan

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 01:34:01 PM »
So making terrain suddenly have the ability to kill them...you're taking away an advantage, and giving a disadvantage.

This.

Forgive me - I'm definitely quite new to this game

No need for apologizing! We love hearing new ideas. Glad you are here posting!

Offline Seahawk

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 04:21:52 PM »
I think warlord traits would be fun to implement, say three charts like 40k, heck, even keep it the same:

- Command traits affect an area immediately surrounding the Warlord, representing the orders he issues to the units around him during the thick of battle. Generally these are abilities that affect units within 12".

- Personal traits represent specific combat skills that your Warlord possess. he can influence those fighting alongside him him as he leads by example. Generally these only affect him or his unit.

- Strategic traits are skills that affect your entire army, representing tricks or gambits your Warlord sets in motion long before the battle begins. Game-wide affects, like affecting reserves, units and terrain, and so on.

As a shortlist of ideas:

Command
1: Inspiring Presence - Friendly ships within 20cm of the Warlord can use his Leadership value instead of their own.
2: Intimidating Presence - Enemy squadrons within 20cm of the Warlord must use their lowest Leadership value, not the highest.
3: Crossed the trackless Void - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm may reroll any Leadership tests for terrain (asteroids, warp rifts, etc)
4: Master of the Vanguard - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm roll an extra dice when they All Ahead Full, dropping the lowest dice.
5: Target Priority - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm may reroll failed Leadership tests for shooting a further target.
6. Coordinated Assault - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm add 1 to their Boarding results.

Personal Traits
1: Master of Defense - Your Warlord and his squadron add 2 to their Boarding result while in they are in their own deployment zone.
2: Master of Offense - Your Warlord and his squadron add 2 to their Boarding result while they are in the enemy's deployment zone.
3: Master of Maneuver - Your Warlord and his squadron may deploy anywhere on the table that is more than 45cm from any enemy ships.
4: Legendary Fighter - Each enemy ship destroyed by your Warlord yields an extra 10% in VP.
5: Tenacity - Your Warlord and his squadron may make a 5+ save against any hull damage taken while within 15cm of one or more enemy ships.
6: Immovable Object - hmm I dunno. Could rename or something

Strategic
1: Conqueror of the Stars - You may choose which table edge is the Sunward edge.
2: Out of the Sun - For the first turn of the game, all weapon ranges are halved.
3: Master of Ambush - Your ships in Reserve may come on from any table edge of your choice.
4: Strategic Genius - Whilst your Warlord is alive, you may reroll any Reserves rolls.
5: Divide to Conquer - Whilst your Warlord is alive, your opponent has -1 to Reserves rolls.
6: Princeps of Deceit - After deployment, you may redeploy up to 3 of your ships/squadrons. This cannot take them out of their deployment zone.


Basically it's all straight out of the book with minor changes, though obviously some need a little help. I'm not sure how often if ever anybody uses Reserves, or if it even works anything like 40k (never used them myself) so those could do with a change.

Discuss.

Offline harec

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2013, 05:43:34 PM »
I think warlord traits would be fun to implement, say three charts like 40k, heck, even keep it the same:

- Command traits affect an area immediately surrounding the Warlord, representing the orders he issues to the units around him during the thick of battle. Generally these are abilities that affect units within 12".

- Personal traits represent specific combat skills that your Warlord possess. he can influence those fighting alongside him him as he leads by example. Generally these only affect him or his unit.

- Strategic traits are skills that affect your entire army, representing tricks or gambits your Warlord sets in motion long before the battle begins. Game-wide affects, like affecting reserves, units and terrain, and so on.

As a shortlist of ideas:

Command
1: Inspiring Presence - Friendly ships within 20cm of the Warlord can use his Leadership value instead of their own.
2: Intimidating Presence - Enemy squadrons within 20cm of the Warlord must use their lowest Leadership value, not the highest.
3: Crossed the trackless Void - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm may reroll any Leadership tests for terrain (asteroids, warp rifts, etc)
4: Master of the Vanguard - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm roll an extra dice when they All Ahead Full, dropping the lowest dice.
5: Target Priority - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm may reroll failed Leadership tests for shooting a further target.
6. Coordinated Assault - Your Warlord and all friendly ships within 20cm add 1 to their Boarding results.

Personal Traits
1: Master of Defense - Your Warlord and his squadron add 2 to their Boarding result while in they are in their own deployment zone.
2: Master of Offense - Your Warlord and his squadron add 2 to their Boarding result while they are in the enemy's deployment zone.
3: Master of Maneuver - Your Warlord and his squadron may deploy anywhere on the table that is more than 45cm from any enemy ships.
4: Legendary Fighter - Each enemy ship destroyed by your Warlord yields an extra 10% in VP.
5: Tenacity - Your Warlord and his squadron may make a 5+ save against any hull damage taken while within 15cm of one or more enemy ships.
6: Immovable Object - hmm I dunno. Could rename or something

Strategic
1: Conqueror of the Stars - You may choose which table edge is the Sunward edge.
2: Out of the Sun - For the first turn of the game, all weapon ranges are halved.
3: Master of Ambush - Your ships in Reserve may come on from any table edge of your choice.
4: Strategic Genius - Whilst your Warlord is alive, you may reroll any Reserves rolls.
5: Divide to Conquer - Whilst your Warlord is alive, your opponent has -1 to Reserves rolls.
6: Princeps of Deceit - After deployment, you may redeploy up to 3 of your ships/squadrons. This cannot take them out of their deployment zone.


Basically it's all straight out of the book with minor changes, though obviously some need a little help. I'm not sure how often if ever anybody uses Reserves, or if it even works anything like 40k (never used them myself) so those could do with a change.

Discuss.

I don't see it. I would make the game less practical, It really would not make more strategic and it is illogical to think in the ships(witch have thousands of crewmen) have any personal aptitude or difference between different navy groups, apart form the racial differences and types of ships available.

But I don't dislike the idea of mysterious terrain.
I colaborate with a spanish blog called profanus40k.
http://profanus40k.blogspot.com.es/

Offline Talos

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2013, 07:49:17 PM »
It won't add that much strategic value, admittedly, but it would be real fun! Also, it's not the whole crew that has the aptitude, just the admiral. Who has definitive influence on his fleet. Also, bear in mind I mean this in a friendly manner, but have you ever read a 40k novel? Despite being dark and gloomy, there is countless stories of heroes pushing their troops to overcome great odds, and of humble troopers accomplishing acts of greatness and selflessness to preserve their friends/leaders. It's not much of a stretch to imagine a leader who personally leads his ship in a boarding action, slaying enemy leaders and inspiring his troops. Heck, if you play orks and your leader does not lead from the front you should just sell your ships now and save yourself the humiliation of having to face other players. ;D 

Offline AndrewChristlieb

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Re: Learning From 40k 6th
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2013, 09:05:14 PM »
Ya thats pretty much how the BT are described in fleet actions too, lead by example.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.