September 16, 2024, 06:33:47 AM

Author Topic: BFG:R Space Marines  (Read 15275 times)

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
BFG:R Space Marines
« on: November 06, 2012, 05:21:47 PM »
I love where the SMs are after the early BFGR votes but I think the inclusion of the Vanguard light cruiser (with the 2nd shield option to make them similar to the  and chapters are a good thing as long as they are balanced with an equal downside.

Here are some preliminary thoughts on chapters:
Ultramarines: They get a free RR but they need a downside. A free RR is a significant bonus.

Space Wolves: They get -1 to enemy boarding them or H&R attacks against them. They need a small downside.

Imperial Fists: I think this is a good one. Balances out.

Raven Guard: Plaxor and I disagreed about this. I think this is an un-fluffy rule because most of the lore behind Raven Guard are about their battle barges and strike cruisers. I like the roll 2D6 and choose for H&R attacks because I think that is very Raven Guard fluffy, but I think they need a downside. I was thinking that, if people use this, they should have a restriction on Hunters, because that is what most people will want to pile up on with this special rule. I was thinking that we should make a rule that says that Raven Guard fleets cannon have more Hunters than other escorts. This way, it will prevent overwhelming boarding torp spam.

Iron Hands: Repair criticals on 4+ but additional -1 Ld when crippled. I think this should be -2 Ld. This is a downside especially when it comes to disengaging and bracing while crippled. It needs to be -2 because their Ld is going to be 8, 9, or 10 already.

Salamanders: No negative leaderships from blast markers. They should have attack rating 2 and one other small downside. Some people do not use attack rating (though I think it's a good idea for balance reasons). Maybe we could give their battle barges the BFGR "unstoppable" quality, which means that they cannot use Burn Retros, yet blast markers do not slow them. I think adding this makes Salamanders, with these 4 rules, balanced and fluffy.

White Scars: Automatically pass AAF special orders. That's just a small bonus but there is no downside. I think they should take a -1 Ld to RO. That is fluffy for White Scars (from what I know) because it encourages their speed and encourages them to get in close to use their guns more than ordnance. -2 would be too much.

Dark Angels: Attack rating 4. That's a small bonus. I am not sure that we need to counter-balance this but maybe with something really slight. I propose that we make every DA battlebarge purchase terminators (Deathwing).

Black Templar: I think we should put a price on the Annihilator per ship that takes it, probably +5pts. Also, we need to rework Annihilators.

Blood Angels: I think the BA rules are awesome. Let's keep it.

Can't wait to work on these. I think chapters add a lot of interesting options and character to the otherwise bland Space Marine fleet.

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4200
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2012, 05:34:58 PM »
nah, on all. In space marines are brand. Aside of colour. Later more.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2012, 05:39:06 PM »
In space marines are brand.

What does this mean?

Offline Bessemer

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 339
    • Loc: UK
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2012, 06:26:12 PM »
How about adding Stormravens? I know BA and GK get these, how about resilient fighters with a speed of 25cm?
Could always be an upgrade for other chapters.

Rather than the free RR, how 'bout ultras can take IN reserves at 2:1 Instead? They're supposes to have good relations with all other of the Imperiums factions.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 06:37:28 PM by Bessemer »
I refuse to be killed by something I've never heard of.

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4200
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2012, 06:45:00 PM »
@ Dan, lol, brand should bland.

@bessemer, with the difficulty of the annihilator in mind I see no room for yet another Marine flyer.

The T-Hawk does what it needs to do.

Chapter Traits are to small to effect space battles. Things like fleet lists alterations can be done (DA with Hunters, Crusade style of Black Templars, Ultramarines with IN intergration).

Offline AndrewChristlieb

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1651
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2012, 09:50:50 PM »
Blah...
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2012, 10:11:55 PM »
?

Offline horizon

  • Moderator
  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4200
  • Destiny Infinity Eternity
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2012, 06:13:36 AM »
The Vanguard: is not listed in your BFG:revised new edition document.
I am not such a fan of this thing anyway.


In short BFG:R

Ultramarines: free re-roll
Space Wolves: stalwart?
Imperial Fists: twice vps opponent commander // vica versa // subplots +1
Raven Guard: elite boarding parties // more escorts then capital ships
Iron Hands: augmented damage control // -1 ld crippled
Salamanders: attack rating 2 // no bm effect to Ld
White Scars: free all ahead full
Black Templars: free annihilator
Blood Angels: Relentless? // if boarding lost double damage

The effects are imo all over the place; with different effects and no cost difference. And the list forces a player to choose a chapter.
If it is done it should be optional. 'Vanilla' must be possible.
And prizes should be paid for chapter effects.

Offline eyeslikethunder

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 26
    • Loc: UK
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2012, 03:44:57 PM »
I agree there should be some cost to these benefits

Offline Dan_Lee

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 67
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2012, 04:05:02 PM »
I don't think you need chapter specific abilities for space marines in BFG. I just don't think it would make much difference. If you really want a themed list, you can reflect it in the ships you pick and the tactics you employ.

As for the abilities presented, they should probably all come with a cost, simply to allow people to play "non of the above". That would also mean you could balance individual abilities with their cost and not have to find a penalty for each bonus.

That said, I did once produce a fleet ability for each of the 18 founding legions which you can find here, if you're interested: http://www.danleeonline.com/attachments/File/Battlefleet_Gothic/Scenarios_of_the_Heresy_-_Istvaan.pdf
Various BFG and other gaming articles that I've written can be found (and downloaded for free) on my website, www.danleeonline.com. Enjoy.

Offline Cneo

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 125
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2012, 05:57:58 PM »
I love where the SMs are after the early BFGR votes but I think the inclusion of the Vanguard light cruiser (with the 2nd shield option to make them similar to the  and chapters are a good thing as long as they are balanced with an equal downside.

Here are some preliminary thoughts on chapters:

Space Wolves: They get -1 to enemy boarding them or H&R attacks against them. They need a small downside.

I think should be +1 to their boarding and H&R instead of the penallty, due to the ferocity and aggressiveness of the chapter.


I love the special abilities of each chapter, it gives a strong personality to the SM fleet and makes up the few ship options that they have compared to other fleets.  ;)

Offline Talos

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 542
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2012, 07:23:33 PM »
Several fleets have only a few ships, and I agree with several of you in that individual SM heraldry would have little effect on the ship's abilities. If a hunter has only 1 squad max of marines on it, it's already difficult to believe that would significantly swing things in their favor as is, and the difference between five ultramarines and five space wolves seems rather insignificant in a battle that will involve hundreds of thousand of people, potentially upward of a million (at least based on RT human and alien ships stats...)

@horizon In another post at another time we should work on some Rak Gol fleet rules. Sort of like Orks only...multi-legged radiation spewing abominations instead.

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2012, 09:50:42 PM »
Alright, I think there is a general climate out there to hold off on the chapter rules. I like them because I like how they make the chapters different but I am willing to hold off on them. Where does everyone think the fleet is without them?

Offline Talos

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 542
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2012, 09:59:34 PM »
Other than the chapter rules, I think they are pretty good, not sure where I stand on the vanguard...

As for SM chapter rules, I do like them, I just think the application is a little lackluster; surprisingly, I agree with horizon that the effects are a little all over the place and inconsistent. I am personally in favor of making them mini-marks of chaos; a small +5 or +10pt upgrade that adds a moderate advantage along with a small disadvantage to balance it out (along with a point cost). This allows vanilla SM fleets to work out fine while giving another set of options to a pretty small fleet list. As an added bonus, you can create mixed chapter fleets like that of the Damocles gulf crusade force, which had many chapters including Iron Hands, White Scars, Ultramarines, etc...

Or did you mean other than me? :P
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 10:02:26 PM by Talos »

Offline afterimagedan

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1902
    • Loc: Chicago IL, USA
Re: BFG:R Space Marines
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2012, 10:02:36 PM »
Other than the chapter rules, I think they are pretty good, not sure where I stand on the vanguard...
I am personally in favor of making them mini-marks of chaos; a small +5 or +10pt upgrade that adds a moderate advantage along with a small disadvantage to balance it out (along with a point cost).

Why make a disadvantage if you are adding a point cost? I do agree with you though, I would like to see them look like Chaos Marks.